The Bare (Rifle) Necessities...

The Bare (Rifle) Necessities...

This is a discussion on The Bare (Rifle) Necessities... within the Defensive Rifles & Shotgun Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; By Uli Gebhard , Suarez International Staff Instructor Los Angeles How much gear to you need to run your rifle? I'm not talking about just ...

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    Member Array Gsolutions's Avatar
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    Lightbulb The Bare (Rifle) Necessities...

    By Uli Gebhard,
    Suarez International Staff Instructor Los Angeles


    How much gear to you need to run your rifle? I'm not talking about just the one mag that you just slapped into your weapon, hoping that those first 30 rounds will get the job done. The question is, what do you need as a bare minimum in terms of support gear to be an efficient fighter with your long gun?
    During my last rifle class, every student had a different approach to his support gear and all of them worked very efficiently with it.


    Three Students, three approaches to carry their gear - what are the pro's and con's?


    The Shoulder Bag

    Let's start this review with my personal favorite: the dedicated rifle support bag.
    There are quite a few different versions out there. Here is what most of them have in common: They are designed as messsenger-style shoulder bags, that one can quickly sling and get going. Some have additional straps, allowing to secure them with a belt or leg strap so that they will stay in position while the operator moves around. Inside the bag are typically compartments for rifle mags, a dump pouch compartment to accept empty magazines and additional pouches or pockets for other support gear such as pistol magazines, flashlight and a trauma kit.
    The big advantages of this type of bag are that it allows hiding the gear in plain sight and that it is a very fast system to get into action. Throw the bag over the shoulder, grab your rifle and go! It does not get a whole lot faster than that.
    Disadvantages are weight distribution (everything is suspended from one shoulder) and location of the mags on the support side only, which makes ambidextrous reloads a bit more difficult. Weight can be an issue and it is a really good idea to keep the gear don to what is reasonable. An unlimited supply of ammo is great - unless you have to log those twelve-hundred rounds for a couple of miles. Four mags in the bag plus one in the rifle is what was sufficient for high-round-count class segments, including laying down cover fire in partner drills.

    Concealed Carry Vest
    Another option is a concealed carry vest. Many of them have two vertical pocktes on the front that are designed around typical rifle magazines such as th ones used in theAR-15. Just like the bag, these vests hide the support gear in plain sight, albeit since the original "photographer's vest" has been retasked quite a bit for this kind of use, it is more of a known what the true purose of this gear is. While this is a convenient and somewhat efficient solution, I would not use it because of this give-away.


    Concealed Carry Vest: all gear is close at hand and out of view.

    In regards to keeping reloads and other gear at hand, everything is in its place and close to your body - it will not flop around, which makes fast movement with this gear carrier easy. However, the setup is fairly rigid and will make ambidextrous operation difficult. With a big rear pocket, there's usually a decent option for a dump pouch, however, it is all the way in the back, which makes for long and potentially awkward maneuvers to retain partially depleted mags.
    However, a vest like this one in the trunk of a car is not very likey to raise any red flags.

    Belt-Mounted Pouches
    Third basic option: mag pouches on a regurlar belt, paired with a foldaway drop pouch. This is the most compact setup that one can get to keep the rifle running. All gear is stored close to the body - which makes concealing it with an oversized shirt truly possible. It takes a bit time to get the gear set up. Mag pouches need to be secured on the belt by threading it through or clipping the carrier around the belt, but this in turn provides a very secure setup that will not shift or swing around. With magazine carriers on the right and on the left, this also allows for swift ambidextrous reloads. The student who ran this rig in class found out that a drop pouch with a larger mouth does not take up significantly more real estate on the belt, but allows for significantly easier magazine changes.


    Mags and dump pouch stacked on the belt.

    Keeping everything on the belt provides a very small amount of bulk - which comes in handy when fighting in tight quarters, but it also limits the amount of gear you can keep at hand. There is not a whole lot of room for a full-blown trauma kit. With this approach one will most likely have to settle for the compact version that will fit into the thigh pocket of a pair of cargo pants.


    The Best Solution?
    Which one is the best solution? The version that works best for your particular situation. Did you get stuck in a Katrina-like scenario and expect potential hostiles trying to evacuate? A belt-mounted system covered up with an oversized shirt might be the best option. If you want to keep your gear at hand for rapid deployment in the trunk of your vehicle? The re-tasked photograper's vest or the shoulder bag will most likely be better. As stated before, my personal favorite is the shoulder bag, such as the Terrorist Interdiction Bag from One Source Tactical, since it is very low profile, fast, versatile, and holds all my gear in one compact package.

    I have several of them, set up for the different rifle types that I frequently use, such as the Saiga in 7.62x39 or a Marlin lever action in .357. For the latter, I have the rounds stored in an elastic loop panel from Minuteman/OST to keep them organized and ready for swift access.
    They all sit stocked next to my rifle storage ready to get paired up with the long gun that will be the most suitable for whatever our family is up to on a particular day.

    Uli Gebhard is Suarez International Staff Instructor in the Los Angeles/Southern CA Area.
    Please click here to find out more about him and the classes that he has currently scheduled.
    Uli Gebhard
    Suarez International Staff Instructor California
    ----------------------------------------------------------
    www.gebhardsolutions.com


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    Urban combat - what you can strip and clean it with! (most of which fits into one pocket) Lube! Gotta make sure the twisted sister fires when you want it to.

    Too many people who have not been in combat put too much crap on the rifle and their backs! All extra weight should be AMMO and water!

    Always assume worst case = you are foot mobile and running for your life. He who learns to run away, lives to fight another day, but never leave your buddy!
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    Member Array Gsolutions's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ANGLICO View Post
    [...]

    Too many people who have not been in combat put too much crap on the rifle and their backs! [...]
    Yup, I've seen people rip gear off their rifles halfway through day one of a two-day course
    Uli Gebhard
    Suarez International Staff Instructor California
    ----------------------------------------------------------
    www.gebhardsolutions.com

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    The basics. Ammo, light and optic.

    I have several options for each and still play around a bit for different situations but it all stays in the same basic spot. I like the Redi Mag so far and I puchased a 1st Gen that releases the mag when the mag button is pushed instead of having a seperate control.

    I have a T-1 for this rifle but had it mounted on my SIG 556 so I stuck the holosight on there for now. Will play with it more when I get home.





    I mounted the visible green laser to try out when shooting coyotes, it worked well. I have not trained with it so it will come off until I do.
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    Senior Member Array TomEgun's Avatar
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    Hmm I survived 2 combat deployments with a bare M16A2 , no light or whistles , Second the opinion of water and ammo , LBE with 2 canteens , 2 ammo pouches , butt pack, compass and a good knife. Medium alice with food, more water,cleaning kit,change of clothes , socks , first aid, and basic health Ie tooth brush ect. Comms and map a GPS now I guess.lol So are we talking real world or a 3 gun match ? just need some good iron sights and im good.
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    It's easy to pick out the one in the know,well spoken ANGLICO.
    Quote Originally Posted by ANGLICO View Post
    Urban combat - what you can strip and clean it with! (most of which fits into one pocket) Lube! Gotta make sure the twisted sister fires when you want it to.

    Too many people who have not been in combat put too much crap on the rifle and their backs! All extra weight should be AMMO and water!

    Always assume worst case = you are foot mobile and running for your life. He who learns to run away, lives to fight another day, but never leave your buddy!

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    VIP Member Array jonconsiglio's Avatar
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    For me, and this is just my opinion on what I've experienced, the bare minimum for a duty rifle for me would be a flashlight. I'd really, really like a red dot and sling as well. The rest is just extra. For a range gun, obviously nothing is essential other than ammo.

    A bare bones set up is just as deadly as a tricked out rifle. The difference is efficiency. I can handle business with any set up, but I'm a little more efficient with a red dot, flashlight and an adjustable two point sling. I'm not saying I can do a better job with that set up as much as I can do the job with a little more ease.

    I may not be all that much faster (for combat accurate hits) at room to room ranges with a red dot over irons, but I will be able to see the red dot a little better and am not as dependent on the rifle being shouldered properly.

    I may be able to clear a structure with a rifle and handheld light, but I'll be able to do it with much less effort if the light is attached to my rifle. I can surely handle my rifle without a sling, but I can handle other things better if I have a sling attached to my body.

    I have a Colt 6720 set up in a basic configuration as well as an old SP1. I enjoy shooting them in their simplest form on occasion. I'd feel confident clearing a structure with a box-stock carbine. I'd feel more comfortable though with my previously mentioned accessories.
    Proven combat techniques may not be flashy and may require a bit more physical effort on the part of the shooter. Further, they may not win competition matches, but they will help ensure your survival in a shooting or gunfight on the street. ~Paul Howe

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    Some people need to seriously consider the KISS Principle.

    My grab-n-go rifle set-up is a basic piston driven Bushy (no rails, no light, and topped with an ACOG), a single strap go bag with the following; an Otis 223 compact kit, a mini can of CLP aresol, and along with the one already in the pipe, another seven magpul 30 rounders. I've also got a couple of tampons in there and a proven trauma kit with the regular necessities. I keep one or two five hour energy mini drinks in there, even though I never drink them during my normal day-to-day routine ... but I keep them in there because I've learned, the hard way, how they come in handy if you get pinned down in a fire fight. And I keep a bottle of water in my bag along with a good small flashlight and an automatic pocket knife, the make and model of either is not important.

    That's it. That's all you would ever possibly need defending your home for any amount of time. You figure it if goes over ten or fifteen minutes, your going to lose eventually anyway.
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    PS: I do have a vest with plates, and if I had the time I have it where I could easily slip into it ... but having the time to do it is not likely imho.
    What you think about, you do ... what you do, you become.

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    VIP Member Array jonconsiglio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tacman605 View Post
    I have a T-1 for this rifle but had it mounted on my SIG 556 so I stuck the holosight on there for now. Will play with it more when I get home.
    You also have a couple Bad-ASS selectors for that rifle too!
    Proven combat techniques may not be flashy and may require a bit more physical effort on the part of the shooter. Further, they may not win competition matches, but they will help ensure your survival in a shooting or gunfight on the street. ~Paul Howe

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    LOL that I do if I can ever get the current selector switch out, I had some issues with it while home. I will work on it more when I get there again.

    Oh and please don't get me wrong I have no problem running a slick rifle at all. My AK here has a couple of simple mods but other than that I run it bare bones and don't have any problems with it. When home on leave last time was the first time I really got to shoot and handle my M4 so it is still in the what do I want configuration. Until I figure that out I rely on my SIG and my AK's.
    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013

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    Cool

    P28091423.jpg
    This was when my Stag was my patrol rifle.
    click image to enlarge....

    Image.jpg
    This is the way she is fitted now that I am retired.... K.I.S.S.
    click image to enlarge....

    OS
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gsolutions View Post
    By Uli Gebhard,
    Suarez International Staff Instructor Los Angeles


    How much gear to you need to run your rifle? I'm not talking about just the one mag that you just slapped into your weapon, hoping that those first 30 rounds will get the job done. The question is, what do you need as a bare minimum in terms of support gear to be an efficient fighter with your long gun?
    During my last rifle class, every student had a different approach to his support gear and all of them worked very efficiently with it.


    Three Students, three approaches to carry their gear - what are the pro's and con's?


    The Shoulder Bag

    Let's start this review with my personal favorite: the dedicated rifle support bag.
    There are quite a few different versions out there. Here is what most of them have in common: They are designed as messsenger-style shoulder bags, that one can quickly sling and get going. Some have additional straps, allowing to secure them with a belt or leg strap so that they will stay in position while the operator moves around. Inside the bag are typically compartments for rifle mags, a dump pouch compartment to accept empty magazines and additional pouches or pockets for other support gear such as pistol magazines, flashlight and a trauma kit.
    The big advantages of this type of bag are that it allows hiding the gear in plain sight and that it is a very fast system to get into action. Throw the bag over the shoulder, grab your rifle and go! It does not get a whole lot faster than that.
    Disadvantages are weight distribution (everything is suspended from one shoulder) and location of the mags on the support side only, which makes ambidextrous reloads a bit more difficult. Weight can be an issue and it is a really good idea to keep the gear don to what is reasonable. An unlimited supply of ammo is great - unless you have to log those twelve-hundred rounds for a couple of miles. Four mags in the bag plus one in the rifle is what was sufficient for high-round-count class segments, including laying down cover fire in partner drills.

    Concealed Carry Vest
    Another option is a concealed carry vest. Many of them have two vertical pocktes on the front that are designed around typical rifle magazines such as th ones used in theAR-15. Just like the bag, these vests hide the support gear in plain sight, albeit since the original "photographer's vest" has been retasked quite a bit for this kind of use, it is more of a known what the true purose of this gear is. While this is a convenient and somewhat efficient solution, I would not use it because of this give-away.


    Concealed Carry Vest: all gear is close at hand and out of view.

    In regards to keeping reloads and other gear at hand, everything is in its place and close to your body - it will not flop around, which makes fast movement with this gear carrier easy. However, the setup is fairly rigid and will make ambidextrous operation difficult. With a big rear pocket, there's usually a decent option for a dump pouch, however, it is all the way in the back, which makes for long and potentially awkward maneuvers to retain partially depleted mags.
    However, a vest like this one in the trunk of a car is not very likey to raise any red flags.

    Belt-Mounted Pouches
    Third basic option: mag pouches on a regurlar belt, paired with a foldaway drop pouch. This is the most compact setup that one can get to keep the rifle running. All gear is stored close to the body - which makes concealing it with an oversized shirt truly possible. It takes a bit time to get the gear set up. Mag pouches need to be secured on the belt by threading it through or clipping the carrier around the belt, but this in turn provides a very secure setup that will not shift or swing around. With magazine carriers on the right and on the left, this also allows for swift ambidextrous reloads. The student who ran this rig in class found out that a drop pouch with a larger mouth does not take up significantly more real estate on the belt, but allows for significantly easier magazine changes.


    Mags and dump pouch stacked on the belt.

    Keeping everything on the belt provides a very small amount of bulk - which comes in handy when fighting in tight quarters, but it also limits the amount of gear you can keep at hand. There is not a whole lot of room for a full-blown trauma kit. With this approach one will most likely have to settle for the compact version that will fit into the thigh pocket of a pair of cargo pants.


    The Best Solution?
    Which one is the best solution? The version that works best for your particular situation. Did you get stuck in a Katrina-like scenario and expect potential hostiles trying to evacuate? A belt-mounted system covered up with an oversized shirt might be the best option. If you want to keep your gear at hand for rapid deployment in the trunk of your vehicle? The re-tasked photograper's vest or the shoulder bag will most likely be better. As stated before, my personal favorite is the shoulder bag, such as the Terrorist Interdiction Bag from One Source Tactical, since it is very low profile, fast, versatile, and holds all my gear in one compact package.

    I have several of them, set up for the different rifle types that I frequently use, such as the Saiga in 7.62x39 or a Marlin lever action in .357. For the latter, I have the rounds stored in an elastic loop panel from Minuteman/OST to keep them organized and ready for swift access.
    They all sit stocked next to my rifle storage ready to get paired up with the long gun that will be the most suitable for whatever our family is up to on a particular day.

    Uli Gebhard is Suarez International Staff Instructor in the Los Angeles/Southern CA Area.
    Please click here to find out more about him and the classes that he has currently scheduled.

    The guy on the far right in your picture really has the bare minimums down! He might be the only guy I have seen run a tactical course in Chuck Taylors! LOL
    Ccccccc what? Ccccccccccc Hawks!

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Old School View Post
    P28091423.jpg
    This was when my Stag was my patrol rifle.
    click image to enlarge....

    Image.jpg
    This is the way she is fitted now that I am retired.... K.I.S.S.
    click image to enlarge....

    OS
    The K.I.S.S. principal is good, IMO.

    WHEC724 and Old School like this.
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    VIP Member Array jonconsiglio's Avatar
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    My two barest minimums.

    Old School likes this.
    Proven combat techniques may not be flashy and may require a bit more physical effort on the part of the shooter. Further, they may not win competition matches, but they will help ensure your survival in a shooting or gunfight on the street. ~Paul Howe

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