Red Dots - Basic Use and Co-Witnessing

This is a discussion on Red Dots - Basic Use and Co-Witnessing within the Defensive Rifles & Shotgun Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Love the read but my work blocks the dang pictures... read it again when I get home tonight....

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Thread: Red Dots - Basic Use and Co-Witnessing

  1. #16
    Member Array Regoria75's Avatar
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    Love the read but my work blocks the dang pictures... read it again when I get home tonight.

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  3. #17
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    Great write up, by the way! Thank you jonconsiglio!
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    Thanks again Jon. I always learn from you.
    --Jason--

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    Quote Originally Posted by TX expat View Post
    It really depends on the optic. An Aimpoint, EoTech and other quality RDS are parallax free (past a certain yardage) so wherever the dot is, the bullet should go. You don't have to have the dot centered in the optic to achieve an accurate shot. Cheaper dot based optics will have greater degrees of parallax and will need a more consistent sight picture.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Right. Parallax is usually within an inch with good red dots.

  6. #20
    Member Array the6shooter's Avatar
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    thanks jon. even though I have not had the chance to check this out, your post will be going with me when I get to try this new colt out.
    david

  7. #21
    Senior Member Array Skygod's Avatar
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    The only argument I would make for "co-witnessing" your irons with your dot is the zero. If you zero the irons properly then a simple co-withness @ 50 or 100 yards, depending, makes it easy to just sit your dot on top of the front sight and be zeroed without having too take shots. Just remember what your zero yardage is due to the fact that close in shots will require a slight HOB (Height over bore) adjustment to get hits where you want them. Holdover, if that term fits your shooting language better.

    I generally don't use my rear sight once the rifle is zeroed and the dot is then placed at the top of the front sight. But not alway's since it's a good zero. If I have both front and rear flip up irons then I'll put them in the down position.

    YMMV.
    Perhaps your sole purpose in life is to serve as a warning to others.

  8. #22
    VIP Member Array jonconsiglio's Avatar
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    But there's no need to ever sit your dot on top of the front sight post after confirming zero. Well, I take that back. Due to very slight parallax, it might not be a bad idea if shooting from the bench for groups, I guess.

    Now, in order to confirm zero, you have to view through the rear aperture and have all three in line. If you have no rear to view through, even if the red dot is 30 MOA left and your irons are zeroed, you can still set the red dot on the front sight post without using a rear sight. Using the rear, you'll see how off the red dot is and can dial it in, then you're good to go.

    Personally, when I hit the range, I confirm my zero by co-witnessing. Then I get to work. I typically leave my irons up though unless I'm using a magnifier.

    ....if I'm following.
    Proven combat techniques may not be flashy and may require a bit more physical effort on the part of the shooter. Further, they may not win competition matches, but they will help ensure your survival in a shooting or gunfight on the street. ~Paul Howe

  9. #23
    Senior Member Array Skygod's Avatar
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    Yes, we are talking the same thing, basically.

    I want every ounce of weight used only by that which I cannot do without. Even my rifle has too weigh under a certain amount depending on the kit and gear I need for that particular situation.

    I like the irons from Magpul. It's a weight thing vs other sights. It may only be an ounce, but it's an ounce less than running other irons.

    I also run the Magpul CTR stock rather than the SOPMOD stock. A couple of more ounces less in the rifle. It's why you'll see the MOE and CTR stock on alot of rifles down range.

    I'm just cutting down on every ounce of weight that I can by using a set of irons that are now polymer.

    I just got off topic a bit. We where talking red dots ?? ................LOL
    Perhaps your sole purpose in life is to serve as a warning to others.

  10. #24
    VIP Member Array SpencerB's Avatar
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    Good post very informative

  11. #25
    CJM
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    This is the most informative thread on RDS's and their setup that I've ever read. Thanks Mr. Consiglio.
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    Thanks

    Great information. Will pass it forward.

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    Great post. I wish I had seen it before I went to sight in my first red dot sight on my AK variant this morning.

    Thanks
    One Riot, One Ranger. Long live the Republic of Texas.

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  14. #28
    VIP Member Array TedBeau's Avatar
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    OK, first off, I'll join the Jon Consiglio fan club, your post are always usefull and you seem to have the experience to back up what you say. I am considering getting a Red Dot for my AK and am looking to get some information concerning selection. My biggest concern with a red dot over a scope is that my eyesight is not what it was 30 years ago. If I put a red dot on my AK I am not sure if it would help me see the target because they are usually non-magnified. I only have standard iron sights on the AK now and it's difficult to get a good sight picture due to the so accurately described "Fuzzy" target at 100 yards. If I put my glasses on I see the target better but then I cannot even see the front or rear sight very well at all. My practice has been to focus on the front sight and shoot center of mass of the target. The AK is just a fun gun anyways and barring a break down of civilization I dont have to be able to shoot bulleyes at 100 yards. I guess what I really need to do is decide if I want to use the AK as a 3 gun carbine and mount a red dot, or use it for target shooting and get a scope with some magnification.
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  15. #29
    VIP Member Array jonconsiglio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TedBeau View Post
    OK, first off, I'll join the Jon Consiglio fan club, your post are always usefull and you seem to have the experience to back up what you say. I am considering getting a Red Dot for my AK and am looking to get some information concerning selection. My biggest concern with a red dot over a scope is that my eyesight is not what it was 30 years ago. If I put a red dot on my AK I am not sure if it would help me see the target because they are usually non-magnified. I only have standard iron sights on the AK now and it's difficult to get a good sight picture due to the so accurately described "Fuzzy" target at 100 yards. If I put my glasses on I see the target better but then I cannot even see the front or rear sight very well at all. My practice has been to focus on the front sight and shoot center of mass of the target. The AK is just a fun gun anyways and barring a break down of civilization I dont have to be able to shoot bulleyes at 100 yards. I guess what I really need to do is decide if I want to use the AK as a 3 gun carbine and mount a red dot, or use it for target shooting and get a scope with some magnification.
    Haha, I think I have a bigger hate club than I do fan club brother!

    You have a couple options here. First off, keep in mind that with a red dot, your focus will mostly be on the target, not the dot, so you'll better see what you're shooting at. Also, you'll have both eyes open, which is always a good thing as well, especially when moving or transition between targets quickly.

    For an AK, I'd go with an Aimpoint T1 or Trijicon mini RMR, either the fixed or adjustable LED model, not the fiber optic/tritium model. One thing guys with fuzzy vision or astigmatisms have mentioned is that the RMR's dot stays crisp while the Aimpoint's can get blurry. If you don't want to spend the money, a Vortex is a decent choice at about half the price of an Aimpoint. You can also find use Comp M2's like Munch520's for under $300.

    I'm sure about the setup of the AK when it comes to magnifiers, but I really like the option of using an Aimpoint 3x magnifier. It may not have room, depending on the AK setup though. I just used an AK hog hunting the other night with a generic red dot. It was about 6 feet off at 200 yards, but other than that, I liked it!

    Another very good option would be a 1-4 or 1-6. These are very effective close to mid range optics and are rockin during 3 gun. Not sure about your budget, but a good one will run anywhere from $900 to $3,000. The new Leupold Mk6 1-6 is incredible. It's very fast, great at distance and robust. It's likely my next variable optic.

    Another awesom 1-4 is the Vortex Razor. Very high quality and not too expensive compared to other 1-4 options. The S&B short dot is the reigning 1-4 champ, but it's bouncing around the $3,000 mark.

    Personally, I'm thinking about the Leupold Mk6 in a LaRue mount that will share time on my 14.5", though the T1 will likely still be the most used. I like the option though as I can use it on a 16" precision 5.56 and a semi 308 as well. I like optics that hold zero and can be used on different rifles, money is extremely tight right now. If it wasn't for the money issue, I'd have the S&B or Mk6 now.

    You could buy the Leupold Mk6, or something similar, stick it in a LaRue mount and it can be your red dot and precision optic. It can pull double duty between two rifles if need be, and with some practice you'll be 90%+ as fast with it as you'd be with an Aimpoint. The only real advantage to the Aimpoint over a variable is it allows a less-than-perfect cheek weld with no concern of eye relief. That's a big thing for me as I work in a vehicle quite often and hunt from them as well.

    If there's anything I can help you with, just let me know.
    Proven combat techniques may not be flashy and may require a bit more physical effort on the part of the shooter. Further, they may not win competition matches, but they will help ensure your survival in a shooting or gunfight on the street. ~Paul Howe

  16. #30
    VIP Member Array jonconsiglio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blades View Post
    Thanks again Jon. I always learn from you.
    No problem buddy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Camjr View Post
    Great post. I wish I had seen it before I went to sight in my first red dot sight on my AK variant this morning.

    Thanks
    That's about the way it always works out! I always find the answer when I no longer need it.

    Quote Originally Posted by CJM View Post
    This is the most informative thread on RDS's and their setup that I've ever read. Thanks Mr. Consiglio.
    I appreciate that, glad it's been a help to some.

    Quote Originally Posted by paraduet View Post
    Great information. Will pass it forward.
    Thanks. Feel free to repost it anywhere you'd like.


    Proven combat techniques may not be flashy and may require a bit more physical effort on the part of the shooter. Further, they may not win competition matches, but they will help ensure your survival in a shooting or gunfight on the street. ~Paul Howe

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