Is a shotgun "useless"? - Page 10

Is a shotgun "useless"?

This is a discussion on Is a shotgun "useless"? within the Defensive Rifles & Shotgun Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; 1) A single 00 buck pellet (.33 cal, 54 gr, 1200 fps) is equivalent to a 9mm (.355 cal, 124 gr, 1100 fps) - not ...

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Thread: Is a shotgun "useless"?

  1. #136
    Member Array Tayopo's Avatar
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    1) A single 00 buck pellet (.33 cal, 54 gr, 1200 fps) is equivalent to a 9mm (.355 cal, 124 gr, 1100 fps) - not to mention projectile construction/materials
    each time that you pull that trigger you are effectively sending 12 9 m/m projectiles down range at around the usual 9 m/m velocities. Beats a sub machinegun rate of fire with aces. A full load of 6 gives you 72 9/mm projectiles, beat that.
    may I suggest that you look up the word 'Effectiveley", and equivelent.


  2. #137
    VIP Member Array jonconsiglio's Avatar
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    Keep in mind that a ~50 gr buckshot pellet is a far cry from a modern 124 or 147 gr hollow point defensive bullet which expands to .65" or more. Still nothing to scoff at, but a bit different than twelve 147 gr Federal HST's fired at one time.
    Proven combat techniques may not be flashy and may require a bit more physical effort on the part of the shooter. Further, they may not win competition matches, but they will help ensure your survival in a shooting or gunfight on the street. ~Paul Howe

  3. #138
    Member Array Tayopo's Avatar
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    G'afternoon Jon, anyone How-n-ell- do I mark a selective section with the blue ?? I have poked, pushed, and pulled every control in my screen on an effort to make my answers less tiring for those interested ?? You will earn an extra cuppa Mexican Hilll coffee if you ----.

    Don Jose de La Mancha

  4. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tayopo View Post
    G'afternoon Jon, anyone How-n-ell- do I mark a selective section with the blue ?? I have poked, pushed, and pulled every control in my screen on an effort to make my answers less tiring for those interested ?? You will earn an extra cuppa Mexican Hilll coffee if you ----.

    Don Jose de La Mancha
    You can use "reply with quote" or highlight the section of text in your post that you want to appear in the blue box and then click the QUOTE button

    Can anyone do a screen capture to help out?
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  5. #140
    VIP Member Array jonconsiglio's Avatar
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    I can do a screenshot if it's needed. at the bottom right of the post you want to quote, there's "reply" and "reply with quote". When choosing "reply with quote" you'll see the text from that post surrounded by [quote] along with the user name and some numbers.
    Proven combat techniques may not be flashy and may require a bit more physical effort on the part of the shooter. Further, they may not win competition matches, but they will help ensure your survival in a shooting or gunfight on the street. ~Paul Howe

  6. #141
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    I want an AA-12 - Full Auto. But I don't think I'll be able to get one.
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  7. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScottM View Post
    I might accept #8 as useable if I could guarantee all my shots would be within 5yds.

    But I can't, and most any of you can't, either.
    And that's a good point. If taken further, it could also be applied to caliber choice.
    Ignorance is a long way from stupid, but left unchecked, can get there real fast.

  8. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by OD* View Post
    I have NEVER read anything by Dr. Roberts about PH's going after wounded cats, and the 5.56 isn't legal in many states for deer hunting, but you have no problem recommending them for man, do you? You could not have done very much research at all, if you still insist many PHs don't use buckshot.
    Never said he did, I said Taypo did. I was referring to Dr Robert's ballistic testing of buckshot, not that he made any claims about PH's. Deer and human are much more comparable than deer and lion. Ballistic testing of 00 buck shows penetration of about 9-15 inches @ 20 ft (note that only a couple pellets made it to the 15" mark). Now look at the anatomy of a 500 pound lion. I'd appreciate it if you would point me to a non-wiki source demonstrating the widespread use of buckshot for lions and tigers. Thanks.
    Last edited by nedrgr21; October 15th, 2012 at 10:15 PM.

  9. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tayopo View Post
    G'afternoon Jon, anyone How-n-ell- do I mark a selective section with the blue ??
    Down at the lower right hand corner of each post is the phrase "Reply With Quote". Click that (left mouse click) and that will give you a "Reply" Box with the quote inside of these markers ["Quote=XXX]Blah blah blah[/Quote"], hit enter to return, and add your comments. Try it, and you can always fix it with the "Edit Post" button in the same area.


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  10. #145
    VIP Member Array nedrgr21's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tayopo View Post
    may I suggest that you look up the word 'Effectiveley", and equivelent.
    Maybe you could explain how a .33 cal, 54 gr, soft lead, ball projectile is "effectively" a .355 cal, 124 gr copper jacketed, lead core, hollow point bullet - especially one that is specifically designed to expand with sharp metal petals?

  11. #146
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    How many angels dance on the head of a pin? Can we count them? Do they have pink Tutu's on? Or white?

    I am not arguing for or against anything here, folks, let's just keep it nice and not get too caught up in minutiae.
    glockman10mm likes this.


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  12. #147
    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
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    In Belize, they hunt Jaguer with a shotgun. Essentially a Leopard, it is considered more dangerous than lion.
    I'd say that's a good endoresment of the shotgun.
    pgrass101 and Tayopo like this.
    Ignorance is a long way from stupid, but left unchecked, can get there real fast.

  13. #148
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    Tayopo - Un cafe con leche, por favor. Gracias, mi amigo!

    Rock and Glock and Tayopo like this.
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  14. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by glockman10mm View Post
    In Belize, they hunt Jaguer with a shotgun. Essentially a Leopard, it is considered more dangerous than lion.
    I'd say that's a good endoresment of the shotgun.
    Might as well give it up Gman, he'll never admit he could be wrong, if he really wanted to learn, a google search of "many Professional African big game hunters DO use shotguns loaded with buckshot on wounded cats." comes back with 19,000 hits.
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  15. #150
    Member Array Tayopo's Avatar
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    Ladies & gentlemen: Coffee my friends. k I found the key for highlighting remarks being answered to, gracias. Now i have to wait for a post where I can put in my two cents.

    Side remark, I have killed a 250+ jag - not a particularly large one, but with just as many large teeth and claws - wth my lil ole S&W mod 28 .357 with, horrors, a single, none expanding, projectile, an old fshioned Keith semi wadcutter at about 1450 fps..

    Secondary side issue , never try for a jag with expanding projectiles in pistols, you need penetration not superficial flesh distruction. I might add that most PH use 'non expanding projectiles' in their larger calibers, the back up guns, some even use the, ugh, shot gun for light skinned cats..

    The ole .375 H&H maggie in the original velocities was an unusual stopper, most game went down on a solid body hit, however many soon got up again, but the hunter had additional time for a finishing shot, however when they stepped it up, it lost it's magical stopping power. Why ??

    Interior & exterior ballistics were my love and advocation for a period in my checkered life, wanna talk about duplex and triplex powder loadings?

    K, if not, back to the proven through generations and centuries of successful usage, the venerable shotgun..

    Don jose de La Macha

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