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Is a shotgun "useless"?

28K views 255 replies 55 participants last post by  Tayopo 
#1 ·
I was in a discussion with someone who mentioned that a shotgun is not a long gun of first choice. He would rather have a combat rifle. His reasoning was that you can put more ammo down range with a rifle (30 rounds vs. 6-7 of a shotgun), it is faster to reload, can carry more reloads, has a longer range, is lighter and more maneuverable. He also mentioned that if he had no other long gun, a shotgun would do, but his preference is a rifle.

Thoughts.
 
#199 ·
All depends on where you hit them. I have dropped whitetails with a .32WS through the skull and their left feet were still in the prints where they stood when shot. If you gut shot with either a shotty or rifle, you are going to have some tracking to do.
 
#6 ·
LOL .... if three guys are rushing thru your door at the same time, which would you rather have in your hands...... the rifle, or the shotgun.

I'ld take the shotgun every time ....... much harder to "miss", especially at close range.

Burglar / intruder in your house , at night, it's dark ..... you want the rifle or the shotgun in your hands ? You don't know if there is only one person, or more.

I asked a guy once, if he knew the difference between a shotgun and a rifle.
He said, " I THINK I do".
My answer: The rifle is in case you missed with the shotgun and they're still running. (an old joke).
 
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#21 · (Edited)
No gun is useless unless unloaded. That said, my preference is AR (SBR), pistol, then SG. Mainly for these reasons

-hostage shots with SGs are an impossibility and if you don't live alone, this could happen
-even the most trained short stroke with pump SGs (seen it happen)
-anyone who takes ARs/pistols seriously sends thousands of rounds downrange a year. it is rare one does that with a shotgun.
-how many that use a SG for HD have had formal training with one? ran a shoothouse with one? how available are good SG courses?
-SGs are much harder to mount lights/RDS/sling to (a must for HD)
-SGs are longer and heavier
-SGs cannot be suppressed
-SGs have a much lower capacity
-a couple quick movement for an admin reload on a AR (mag release, pull mag out, insert-push/pull fresh magazine) nets me 28 additional rounds. similar movements with a pistol net me 15. the same amount of movement on an SG nets me 1 additional round

I'ld take the shotgun every time ....... much harder to "miss", especially at close range.
Complete fallacy. Shot doesn't spread instantly, at close range (5-7m) the diameter of the shot is not much larger than .5" (unless the barrel is very short).

The psychological impact of simply racking the shotgun at night is extremely effective.
Wouldn't rely on that, especially since in doing so you've now given away your position.

It is no accident that most police cars have one on the dash.
If budget allows, most patrolmen I know still have the SG in the rack but always default to the AR in the trunk if needed. Or throw the AR in the rack (if it fits). And what do most SWAT teams use? Assaulters? Etc. (besides the breacher). This is a clue.
 
#7 ·
That's like claiming a pneumatic staple gun is useless because a glue gun is lighter and can be used with more materials. Each tool has its purpose.
 
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#9 ·
In a fight between 10 and 50 yds Id think a shot gun with proper ammo would be "King" of the fight stoppers! At less than 10 yds a hand gun and over 50 yds Id want a rifle. they are just tools. Picking the right tool for the job is what we do. If I had to pick just one to use in a fight it would be the rifle. But the rifle just isn't practical to carry around all the time. DR
 
#10 ·
Useless? Heck, no! BG's breaking my doors down, if I have more than a couple of seconds to react I'm grabbing the shotgun. 4 rounds in the mag and a bandoleer next to it in the closet, 1.5 steps from where I sleep.

If I hear a disturbance in the street - i.e., at a greater distance - then I'll reach for the AR and the phone, and sit tight waiting for the gendarmes to show up.
 
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#11 ·
About the only time one is pretty much useless is when it is empty..... :image035:
 
#12 ·
It's not a binary decision, it's not a choice between useless and unbeatable.

For most instances if both were side by side I'd grab the AR. If the shotgun was in reach and the AR was across the room, I'd grab the shotgun.

The points your friend made were valid and as he said, preference is a rifle but I'd not feel hopeless with a shotgun.
 
#13 ·
Depends on the mission at hand. When you're talking about carrying reloads it implies movement and possible contact at distances ranging from close combat out to 300 yards or so (which is usually the limit of effective aimed fire for an assault type rifle). In that case I'd agree that the shotgun is far from ideal. Sure you can run slugs, have rifle sights on your shotgun and possibly stay in the fight for most of that range, but it isn't the ideal weapon. But if you're talking up close and personal and you're somewhat positive that the hostage rescue shot isn't in the cards the shotty is pretty close to THE answer. 12 gauge 00 buck is going to take the fight out of someone pretty danged quick. The shotgun is my preferred home defense weapon for a reason. But if I have to "bug out" the rifle is my go to gun.
 
#14 ·
Assuming an AR in .223/.300 Blackout type chambering: He forgot lighter recoil and faster follow-ups/2nd target acquisition and less "overpenetration".

How is it harder to miss with a shotgun when there is no to minimal spread of buckshot at inside the home distances and it's easier to maneuver/swing an AR?

That said, if I knew I was going to have multiple intruders in a kill box (stairwell, hallway with no doors nearby) a shotgun with slugs would probably be ideal; but then again, an AR in 458 SOCOM would do the same job.

However, the shotgun is far from useless.
 
#15 ·
I am much more proficient with an AR. Certainly my choice with proper ammo.
 
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#16 ·
HI exactly, to around 35 meters a shotgun is fantastic. As to firepower, remember each time that you pull that trigger you are effectively sending 12 9 m/m projectiles down range at around the usual 9 m/m velocities. Beats a sub machinegun rate of fire with aces. A full load of 6 gives you 72 9/mm projectiles, beat that.

The psychological impact of simply racking the shotgun at night, say in the brush, or along the Rio Grande, is extremely effective, as any Border Patolman can tell you.

It was the preferred trench warefare weapon in ww-1 against mass atacks, . They even stopped incoming grenades in the air by good wing shooters.

It is no accident that most police cars have one on the dash.

NO a shotgun is no mistake under 30 40 meters, but it is not slective among mixed targets, it gets them all.

Don jose de La Mancha
 
#17 ·
This is just me......

If your in a firefight where more than ANY number of rounds are exchanged, your in a bad way. Most gunfights are gonna occure within 30'.... pistol, rifle, range certinally, but PERFECT range for a Trench Gun! Eleven .30 caliber pellets per a #1 buckshot placed on target WILL change the attitude of who or whatever is on the 'bidness' end of a shotty.
No, a shotgun is NOT useless unless you have no confidence in your ability with it.

Whoever said it's a useless gun is weakminded.

Yes, a pistol IS, for most of us, a primary weapon. At home or in combat, a pistol is a means to fight your way to a superior weapon(or as a backup to it).... and at home, I'm grabbing the shotty.
 
#106 ·
This is just me......

If your in a firefight where more than ANY number of rounds are exchanged, your in a bad way. Most gunfights are gonna occur within 30'....
Isn't that 3 feet?
 
#18 ·
My HD plan is essentially to hunker down in my bedroom, with its one entrance point, with all family members behind me. For such a barricade role, the shotgun is perfect. Whoever opens that door clearly doesn't belong in there, and I will be waiting for them with my shotgun. I am confident that if they come in looking for trouble, that's where they're going to stop.
 
#19 ·
We use pistol caliber carbines for HD. The M1 carbine is light weight handy in size and has low recoil, allowing for rapid accurate fire.

That being said, I have no problems with using a shotgun either. I can just put more rounds on target faster with the carbine
 
#23 ·
G'morning munch 520: Coffee? you posted --> how many that use a SG for HD have had formal trainging with one?
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Another plus for the shotgun, no formal training as such needed, other than perhaps 1/2 hr in gettting used to it's feel.
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You posted -->-SGs are much harder to mount lights/RDS/sling to (a must for HD)

The psychological impact of simply racking the shotgun at night is extremely effective. Wouldn't rely on that, especially since in doing so you've now given away your position.
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Rather contradicting statements no?
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You posted -->SGs cannot be suppressed
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They certainly can be, but for what pupose?
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You posted -->SGs have a much lower capacity

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Not when you consider 12 9 m/m projectiles per trigger pull. Sides just when do you have time for 28 + 28 rnds unless you are panicking??

As I once mentioned, I have yet to fire all 6 rnds in my S&W .357 in any encounter.

Don Jose de La Mancha
 
#25 ·
The psychological impact of simply racking the shotgun at night is extremely effective.

Wouldn't rely on that, especially since in doing so you've now given away your position.

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Rather contradicting statements no?
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The part is bold is what you typed, Matt was just quoting it. Matt's reply was that he wouldn't rely on it.

I think using the sound a shotgun is foolish, at best. Any border patrol agent or officer taking a defensive position near an enemy and THEN racking a round into a chamber needs to be put on desk duty for a year while he spends some time in training. Sadly, it's a very common myth that a criminal would be deterred by this. There is a study that interviewed numerous felons that said the sound of a shotgun did nothing more than medicate what direction to shoot.

Now, I think both the rifle and shotgun make great defensive weapons, but I'm more proficient with a rifle. The only one better is the one you know how to use.

Notice that most law enforcement departments are moving away from shotguns and issuing rifles. Some may still choose to keep a shotgun in their vehicle, but the vast majority are moving away. In some departments, the only place for the shotgun is when it comes to breaching.
 
#26 ·
The simple racking of a pump action may be enough to give any BG pause for thought. If that don't work then number 8 shot inside the house will do the trick. I keep a 16gauge with 4 rounds in the magazine (nothing in the chamber) for HD (inside the house). The pistols are good for carry but the shotgun is good for scary.
 
#27 ·
number 8 shot inside the house will do the trick.
As much fallacy as not having to aim at close range and simply racking the gun being enough to scare the intruder.

Any of these may work but I would not bet my life on it.
 
#30 ·
Spent Wednesday at a Ltc Grossman seminar. In it he again propounded the combat rifle vs the shotgun for LEOs. His reasoning is the increasing use of body armor by the BGs and the ability to reach out and touch someone. Keep in mind that a LEO sniper shots are shown to be under a 100 yards, data shows ±66 yard average. CQB or SD the shotgun works until you introduce the Body Armor. As I have before taken umbrage with the use of a .22 battle rifle (.223 or 5.56mm), I personally perfer 6.8mm or better/bigger. JMHO!
 
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