Is a shotgun "useless"? - Page 12

Is a shotgun "useless"?

This is a discussion on Is a shotgun "useless"? within the Defensive Rifles & Shotgun Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Originally Posted by OD* I didn’t read just the first pages, I’ve actually read books by Peter Hathaway Capstick, Robert Ruark , John "Pondoro" Taylor, ...

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Thread: Is a shotgun "useless"?

  1. #166
    VIP Member Array jonconsiglio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OD* View Post
    I didn’t read just the first pages, I’ve actually read books by Peter Hathaway Capstick, Robert Ruark , John "Pondoro" Taylor, etc.

    Believe it or don't.

    My post wasn't directed at you.
    Proven combat techniques may not be flashy and may require a bit more physical effort on the part of the shooter. Further, they may not win competition matches, but they will help ensure your survival in a shooting or gunfight on the street. ~Paul Howe


  2. #167
    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
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    A rifle or shotty would feel right good on a bad day.

    And, I will go ahead and come out of the closet; if trouble comes a knocking, I'd prefer my lever action 44 in my hands, loaded with my handloads of 180 weight XTP 44 Special loads. With 9 in the tube, I'm happy.
    OD* likes this.
    Ignorance is a long way from stupid, but left unchecked, can get there real fast.

  3. #168
    OD*
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    Quote Originally Posted by glockman10mm View Post
    I handled one that had express sights on it, but was a shotty. Common practice to load one barrel with a slug and one with shot.
    Also a common arm is the drilling, as produced by Kreigoff. Merkel, and Hoffman are big, big name brands of fine guns uncommon over here.

    Another thing about Lions; they are hard as hell to see, and when they are close enough to see, they can get to you in one pounce. I have seen them jump a school bus length.
    In the grass, they blend in very very well.

    In the states, the scattergun is probably more credit worthy of helping to settle the west than the rifles or revolvers.
    It is definitely an asset to have around.
    My B-I-L took three rifles, one happened to be a Merkel double in 470 Nitro, a 416 Remington, and a Winchester .375 H&H. I was fortunate enough to get to shoot the Merkel, I was expecting horrendous recoil, but I'd much rather shoot the .470 than the .416 mag, that Remington is absolutely brutal IMO. Now Pete's friend had a .416 Rigby, that was entirely different recoil, it was actually fun to shoot.
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    "The pistol, learn it well, carry it always ..." ~ Jeff Cooper

    "Terrorists: They hated you yesterday, they hate you today, and they will hate you tomorrow. End the cycle of hatred, donít give them a tomorrow."

  4. #169
    OD*
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonconsiglio View Post
    My post wasn't directed at you.
    Nor mine to you sir.
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    "The pistol, learn it well, carry it always ..." ~ Jeff Cooper

    "Terrorists: They hated you yesterday, they hate you today, and they will hate you tomorrow. End the cycle of hatred, donít give them a tomorrow."

  5. #170
    OD*
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    Quote Originally Posted by glockman10mm View Post
    A rifle or shotty would feel right good on a bad day.

    And, I will go ahead and come out of the closet; if trouble comes a knocking, I'd prefer my lever action 44 in my hands, loaded with my handloads of 180 weight XTP 44 Special loads. With 9 in the tube, I'm happy.
    Works for me.

    Mine would have to be a trapper in .45 Colt, with a .325 grain Keith over 24 grains of H110.
    "The pistol, learn it well, carry it always ..." ~ Jeff Cooper

    "Terrorists: They hated you yesterday, they hate you today, and they will hate you tomorrow. End the cycle of hatred, donít give them a tomorrow."

  6. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by glockman10mm View Post
    A rifle or shotty would feel right good on a bad day.

    And, I will go ahead and come out of the closet; if trouble comes a knocking, I'd prefer my lever action 44 in my hands, loaded with my handloads of 180 weight XTP 44 Special loads. With 9 in the tube, I'm happy.
    Not that I am in the closet but I perfer the M1 carbine loaded with 110gr Remington JSP's
    ďYou can sway a thousand men by appealing to their prejudices quicker than you can convince one man by logic.Ē

    ― Robert A. Heinlein,

  7. #172
    VIP Member Array jonconsiglio's Avatar
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    It was inevitable with the way this thread was going that someone would eventually come out of the closet.

    To tell y'all the truth, I'm not really all that surprised by who it was, either.

    glockman10mm likes this.
    Proven combat techniques may not be flashy and may require a bit more physical effort on the part of the shooter. Further, they may not win competition matches, but they will help ensure your survival in a shooting or gunfight on the street. ~Paul Howe

  8. #173
    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OD* View Post
    Works for me.

    Mine would have to be a trapper in .45 Colt, with a .325 grain Keith over 24 grains of H110.
    Amigo, this made me grin and chuckle:)
    I tailored my load for bipeds, but you are not discriminating, lol.
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    Ignorance is a long way from stupid, but left unchecked, can get there real fast.

  9. #174
    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
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    What can I say Jon?

    But ya know, I think it all comes down to what we like and feel comfortable with.
    My likes dictate a lever gun, but I also very much enjoy the coach gun with it's double barrel and open bore.

    My AR and M4 rifles are also in the mix, although I really don't prefer to use them for anything but SHTF guns.

    I would feel just fine with any of them though.
    Ignorance is a long way from stupid, but left unchecked, can get there real fast.

  10. #175
    Member Array jdivence's Avatar
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    I believe the opposite. Well not entirely. A shotgun is my preferred HD weapon. Unless you have a lot of land to protect a shotgun offers plenty of range. Buck shot offers a way to put down multiple threats at once. Most shotguns are easy to use accurately allowing for good shots even under stress. They are also easy to maintain and manipulate so family members who are not gun people can learn to use them.
    God invented cops so that firemen could have heroes too!

  11. #176
    VIP Member Array jonconsiglio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glockman10mm View Post
    What can I say Jon?

    But ya know, I think it all comes down to what we like and feel comfortable with.
    My likes dictate a lever gun, but I also very much enjoy the coach gun with it's double barrel and open bore.

    My AR and M4 rifles are also in the mix, although I really don't prefer to use them for anything but SHTF guns.

    I would feel just fine with any of them though.
    Spend a weekend down here with me and we'll see how you feel afterwards. Well, maybe not after that closet stuff....

    Seriously though, if you have a chance to make it down this way, and I have enough time in advance to secure the shoot house, I think I could at least show you some advantages with the rifle that you're likely not considering. Think about it.

    Hell, maybe we should just do a meet of a number of forum members at my buddy's ranch down here.
    Tayopo and McDonaldUSMC like this.
    Proven combat techniques may not be flashy and may require a bit more physical effort on the part of the shooter. Further, they may not win competition matches, but they will help ensure your survival in a shooting or gunfight on the street. ~Paul Howe

  12. #177
    Member Array Tayopo's Avatar
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    Lades & gentlemen, Jon that was a good post. I personally do have an ole Winchester 97 riot gun in my room, loaded with 00, but my primary defensive weapon is a pistol, generally my S&W Border Patrol model with a 4" barrel and keith long range front sight. The pistol is automatic with me since I have carried it all over the Pacific basin and Mexico in explorations, where It was allowed. It's resting place is under my blankets about waist level. This allows activating it before a BG can take notice. This technique was learned the hard way and has resolved several bad situations. 'Obviously' I cannot, nor will I go into sordid details in an 'open' internet. Even in here, our posts are heavily monitored by our benevolent gov't Hint.

    The main reason that I use it, is that I have spent years of intensive practice and the use of it, so it is almost an automatic reaction, particularly since it has proven itself for me..

    As for self defense, I have preached 'use the best available to you', whether it is a roll of coins, a rolled up magazine, pencil, ball pen, a coffee cup, a knife, spear, cross bow, even a lil .25, if nothing else is available to you because of local laws or financial restrictions. But learn to use youi choice, practice until it becomes almost automatic. Obviously a firearm is presently on the top of the line, if it is available to you.

    It always reminds the inscription that I saw on a Colt "Be afraid of no man, no matter what his size, just call upon me and I will equalize".

    While you can qute successfully kill a man with a lowly pencil, obviously the killing tech has been refined to our present line of pistols. Use one of them. The poorest, most inefficient one, is far superior to nothing.

    Remember, ever since man evolved, he has adapted many mundane things to kill each other, even 'throwing rocks', which have killed thousands. in fact they were an integral part of the armies until the 1600's.

    The modern shot gun has evolved also, it hasn't reached this point with consistent failures. It is probably the single most lethal weapon available to man, without extensive and expensive training, plus, for some reason it is looked upon more benevolently by even anti firearms groups.

    The choice is yours, but don't get side tracked by any of our little squabbles in here on purely 'minor' technicalities. We all have our shibboleths, which we will defend since they are extensions of our person. Do your own research, using data posted in here as your guide, not your bible.

    Don Jose de La Mancha
    .
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  13. #178
    OD*
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    Quote Originally Posted by glockman10mm View Post
    Amigo, this made me grin and chuckle:)
    I tailored my load for bipeds, but you are not discriminating, lol.
    Several years ago, we had a "shooting" get together for members of a discussion form I belonged to, it worked out to be around Evansville Ind., one of the attendees I'm sure you've heard of was Lee Jurras, who at the time lived in Washington In. Anyway, I got to spend some time with Mr. Jurras alone, and we spoke of many things, (his hunting of Africa was one of many) I asked what he carried in his handgun when he was out and about in the woods/bush etc., he told me about the above mentioned Colt load, I figured if it was good enough for the inventor of Super-Vel ammunition, it was good enough for me.
    Tayopo likes this.
    "The pistol, learn it well, carry it always ..." ~ Jeff Cooper

    "Terrorists: They hated you yesterday, they hate you today, and they will hate you tomorrow. End the cycle of hatred, donít give them a tomorrow."

  14. #179
    VIP Member Array jonconsiglio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tayopo View Post
    The choice is yours, but don't get side tracked by any of our little squabbles in here on purely 'minor' technicalities. We all have our shibboleths, which we will defend since they are extensions of our person. Do your own research, using data posted in here as your guide, not your bible.

    Don Jose de La Mancha
    Exactly. We can talk about this stuff all day because it's interesting and there are valid points on both sides, but the reality is that these conversations, generally speaking, are about the smaller details.

    Dr Roberts, in his ammunition recommendation articles states -

    "Only after proper foundational and ongoing repetitive refresher training, cultivating warrior mind-set, and ensuring weapon system reliability do you need to worry about ammunition selection."
    Tayopo likes this.
    Proven combat techniques may not be flashy and may require a bit more physical effort on the part of the shooter. Further, they may not win competition matches, but they will help ensure your survival in a shooting or gunfight on the street. ~Paul Howe

  15. #180
    Member Array Tayopo's Avatar
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    Need any help jester ? I can supply the coffee while helping you in your civic duty..

    Don Jose d La Mancha

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