Is a shotgun "useless"?

This is a discussion on Is a shotgun "useless"? within the Defensive Rifles & Shotgun Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Originally Posted by glockman10mm You are missing something that cannot apparently be explained. But here's some of the reasons. Dangerous game rifles are generally heavy ...

Page 14 of 18 FirstFirst ... 4101112131415161718 LastLast
Results 196 to 210 of 256
Like Tree190Likes

Thread: Is a shotgun "useless"?

  1. #196
    VIP Member Array nedrgr21's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Midwest
    Posts
    3,466
    Quote Originally Posted by glockman10mm View Post
    You are missing something that cannot apparently be explained. But here's some of the reasons.
    Dangerous game rifles are generally heavy and unwieldy in the bush.
    The pointing characteristics of a shotgun make it a natural for point shooting accurately and quickly.
    When not using a double gun, the bolt gun is too slow to get off a second shot.
    A double barrel shotgun has two quick shots.
    Even a 410 has enough stopping power to put down a charging lion. Think 44 magnum power.
    That's not hard to explain as to why a shotgun is used at all. Only took 5 pages and 70 posts of misdirection, BS, hyperbole, and snarky comments to get it out in a 13 page/200 post thread filled with misinformation and BS about shotguns in general. Still doesn't answer the question of 00 buck over slugs though (#2 & #4 above). And if a 410 is adequate to stop a charging lion, why is the min cartridge to hunt them a .375 or 9.2 and why are PH's using 12 ga over a 416 (due to being unwieldy and heavy) but not a 410 or 20 ga when they could save themselves even more weight and have even more maneuverability? Or are we entering the single shot 22lr derringer for SD arena? Maybe I should just wait for the next 70 posts worth of BS before coming back. What does traveling 10k miles have to do with a question about buckshot? Albert Einstein - "If you can't explain it to a six year old, you don't understand it yourself."

  2. Remove Ads

  3. #197
    Senior Member Array munch520's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Midwest
    Posts
    578
    Quote Originally Posted by jonconsiglio View Post
    You know you're always welcome any time. You know John?!
    Thanks bro. Likewise for you if you and the family wanna come up and visit the heartland! Lol. Weekend at the farm may be fun, if your family likes riding horses and stuff.

    I don't know ironman personally. We tried to link up on my last trip but it was short notice. But yea he said he knows IraqNinja and wants to get the 4 of us together next year or somethin. Sounds like a good time to me.
    Monotony is the awful reward for the careful

    How can man die better than facing fearful odds, for the ashes of his fathers and the temples of his Gods?

  4. #198
    Member Array Tayopo's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Alamos, Son, Mexico
    Posts
    190
    ned, you are a bit fascinating however let us say "why not play Tarzan and kill em with a knife", or with a spear as the native population still does.. I believe that most of your questions were adequately answered long ago ???


    C'omon out into the patio and watch the humming birds play in the fountain spray. You can even watch Lupita's sexy wriggle, while she serves us coffee and fresh hot sweet rolls. Relax.

    Don Jose de La Mancha:smile
    Rock and Glock likes this.

  5. #199
    VIP Member
    Array ksholder's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    3,886
    Quote Originally Posted by DontTreadOnI View Post
    Which would have more capability of instant incapacitation? Honest question. I've seen what a slug can do to a deer, but I have never harvested one with a rifle.
    All depends on where you hit them. I have dropped whitetails with a .32WS through the skull and their left feet were still in the prints where they stood when shot. If you gut shot with either a shotty or rifle, you are going to have some tracking to do.
    It's the Land of Opportunity, not the Land of Entitlements - Vote America!!!

    "When governments fear the people there is liberty. When the people fear the government there is tyranny." Thomas Jefferson

    You are only paranoid until you are right - then you are a visionary.

  6. #200
    VIP Member Array jonconsiglio's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Corpus Christi, Texas
    Posts
    3,170
    I'm sold Tayopo, I'm on my way now!

    Munch, IraqNinja's a good dude. Paradigm got some OBR's and he just personally picked up a SCAR H and a 9" 300blk he wants to use to slay some hogs.

    We keep trying to link up for another trip, but one of us is always tied up with something or I can't get access to the ranch. Last time we went, we swore to his kid he could have the first hog. We were driving around and checking things out the first afternoon and his kid asks "Is that a pig?". We almost knocked him over fighting for a good shot, it took off into the wooded area and John and I went after it, leaving my buddy and his kid behind for about 30 minutes.

    It's a lot of fun out there.
    Proven combat techniques may not be flashy and may require a bit more physical effort on the part of the shooter. Further, they may not win competition matches, but they will help ensure your survival in a shooting or gunfight on the street. ~Paul Howe

  7. #201
    VIP Member
    Array ksholder's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    3,886
    Quote Originally Posted by munch520 View Post
    -anyone who takes ARs/pistols seriously sends thousands of rounds downrange a year. it is rare one does that with a shotgun.
    I take it you don't do skeet, trap or sporting clays. Guys/gals who do put many thousand rounds down range annually, they can hit moving targets and pretty well know their gun. Most don't use a pump or auto loader, but some do. I do not think it rare to see thousands of rounds go through a shotty annually.
    It's the Land of Opportunity, not the Land of Entitlements - Vote America!!!

    "When governments fear the people there is liberty. When the people fear the government there is tyranny." Thomas Jefferson

    You are only paranoid until you are right - then you are a visionary.

  8. #202
    VIP Member
    Array ksholder's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    3,886
    Quote Originally Posted by Tayopo View Post
    Good morming Ladies & gentlemen: Many have taken issue with my remark that merely racking the action has a strong psychological effect, I agree that not evey time, but most of the time it is quite effective. Only in a stake out is the noise inadviseable. Remember, 99 % of the baddies do not wish to get into a firefight for many reasons, racking the action indicates audibly that you are prepared to do so.

    In a practical sense, unless you keep the shot gun loaded with one chambered, and cocked, you will have to rack it - of course, if you are using my personal favorite, My ole Winchester 97 riot gun, you merely thumb back the hammer, also it will fire each time that the action comes to battery if you hold back the trigger - you can get off 2 -3 shots in perhaps a sec if necessary. NOW 'that' is firepower. 24 - 36 9 m/m rounds per sec. hehhe.

    Don Jose de La Mancha
    If you cycle the slide, you are losing a round. Either you did not have the gun loaded and on safe, or you are putting a fresh round on the ground. In either case, for a weapon that holds from 5 to 8 or so rounds, that seems like a lot to lose regardless of whether the sound is useful.
    atctimmy likes this.
    It's the Land of Opportunity, not the Land of Entitlements - Vote America!!!

    "When governments fear the people there is liberty. When the people fear the government there is tyranny." Thomas Jefferson

    You are only paranoid until you are right - then you are a visionary.

  9. #203
    Senior Member Array munch520's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Midwest
    Posts
    578
    Quote Originally Posted by jonconsiglio View Post
    I'm sold Tayopo, I'm on my way now!

    Munch, IraqNinja's a good dude. Paradigm got some OBR's and he just personally picked up a SCAR H and a 9" 300blk he wants to use to slay some hogs.

    We keep trying to link up for another trip, but one of us is always tied up with something or I can't get access to the ranch. Last time we went, we swore to his kid he could have the first hog. We were driving around and checking things out the first afternoon and his kid asks "Is that a pig?". We almost knocked him over fighting for a good shot, it took off into the wooded area and John and I went after it, leaving my buddy and his kid behind for about 30 minutes.

    It's a lot of fun out there.
    Now THAT is a hog-slaying-arsenal.

    Haha that's great, sounds like fierce competition. Lets make it happen!

    Quote Originally Posted by ksholder View Post
    I take it you don't do skeet, trap or sporting clays. Guys/gals who do put many thousand rounds down range annually, they can hit moving targets and pretty well know their gun. Most don't use a pump or auto loader, but some do. I do not think it rare to see thousands of rounds go through a shotty annually.
    Not any significant amount no.

    I still think its more likely that the average owner will put more rounds through their AR than their SG.
    Monotony is the awful reward for the careful

    How can man die better than facing fearful odds, for the ashes of his fathers and the temples of his Gods?

  10. #204
    VIP Member Array zacii's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    arizona
    Posts
    3,749
    I believe that an AR is more user friendly.

    My 10 year old can wield my AR. It's light enough, and recoils soft enough, that he can make a soda can dance all day inside 50 yards.

    "Is a shotgun useless?" No. But the guy who doesn't know how to use it makes it so.
    Trust in God and keep your powder dry

    "A heavily armed citizenry is not about overthrowing the government; it is about preventing the government from overthrowing liberty. A people stripped of their right of self defense is defenseless against their own government." -source

  11. #205
    Senior Member Array munch520's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Midwest
    Posts
    578
    Quote Originally Posted by zacii View Post
    I believe that an AR is more user friendly.

    My 10 year old can wield my AR. It's light enough, and recoils soft enough, that he can make a soda can dance all day inside 50 yards.

    "Is a shotgun useless?" No. But the guy who doesn't know how to use it makes it so.
    Well said. And my wife/new shooters are the same way. First shot "boom"...then they turn with that crazy grin and go "Is that it?! Not bad at all!" Definitely easy to use.
    Monotony is the awful reward for the careful

    How can man die better than facing fearful odds, for the ashes of his fathers and the temples of his Gods?

  12. #206
    Member Array Tayopo's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Alamos, Son, Mexico
    Posts
    190
    KS, I'll buy your post 100% You earned yer coffee. Lupita --

    What I was referring to, is that under normal circumstances in using a shot gun, other than my old 97, or a visibly hammered one, you normally do not go around with one chambered and with the safety on, ugh.

    The same applies to my concealed or open carry pistol.

    I just don't '''trust'''' safeties, or keeping the hammer spring under tension indefinitely..

    In fact, one of my pet peeves in the westerns is that the hero is expecting a possible momentary attack so he levers a cartridge into the chamber. doing precisely what you mentioned, also throwing his canteen away when it is empty..

    Once my partner and I were backpacking down the west coast of Mexico before there were any roads, just trails, we were forced to go without water for 3 days due to the next two water sources being dry, this is why it is a sensitive spot with me.


    See middle picture, left column, for hitting a river at the last moment, and lower right for the main road down the Western coast Of Mexico.

    Don Jose de La ManchaBack packing trip.jpg

    p.s. I am the left guy with the machete gathering lagoon oysters

  13. #207
    VIP Member Array 10thmtn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    5,872
    Quote Originally Posted by munch520 View Post
    I still think its more likely that the average owner will put more rounds through their AR than their SG.
    Nope.

    Around here, it is much easier to find a place to shoot trap/skeet than it is to shoot a rifle. And the rifle ranges only allow you to load 5 rounds at a time, no rapid fire, and no shooting on the move.

    So there you go.
    The more good folks carry guns, the fewer shots the crazies can get off.
    www.armedcitizensnetwork.org - member
    Glock 30, 19, 26; Ruger SP101, LCR, LCP (2), Mini 14; Remington 870; Marlin 336 .30-30
    CT Lasers

  14. #208
    Senior Member Array munch520's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Midwest
    Posts
    578
    Quote Originally Posted by 10thmtn View Post
    Nope.

    Around here, it is much easier to find a place to shoot trap/skeet than it is to shoot a rifle. And the rifle ranges only allow you to load 5 rounds at a time, no rapid fire, and no shooting on the move.

    So there you go.
    Well, kinda sucks to live where you do I guess

    Here you pay $40/year for a state park permit and you have outdoor 25yd pistol, 100yd rifle, and 100 yard skeet. Not to mention the plethora of pricier indoor ranges. Ill take a picture next time I'm there...pistol and rifle are PACKED. Rifle usually has a wait 5-7 folks deep. And there's rarely more than 1-2 people on the SG side.

    The local guy is cool and let's us move (no closer to 'contact') when the range is empty. No mag limit, no caliber limit, class 3s allowed, and 3 round bursts only.

    Neither of our arguments hold much water, as they're a pretty micro view of the overall scope and takes no account of serious enthusiasts who will travel for training/shooting.
    Monotony is the awful reward for the careful

    How can man die better than facing fearful odds, for the ashes of his fathers and the temples of his Gods?

  15. #209
    VIP Member Array jonconsiglio's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Corpus Christi, Texas
    Posts
    3,170
    We shoot full auto at all of our ranges. Only the indoor does not allow the 50. We can use the bays at the rifle and pistol club and set up courses and at the public outdoor range we have to be IDPA members to use the bays.

    I would have little reason to go to the range with such asinine rules.

    For the record, we don't see anywhere near the shotguns like we do semi auto rifles. We have carbine competitions, IDPA, IPSC and 3 gun. No dedicated shotgun competitions though. Eventhough I wouldn't attend, it would be nice for those that prefer the shotgun to get something more than stationary shooting.
    Proven combat techniques may not be flashy and may require a bit more physical effort on the part of the shooter. Further, they may not win competition matches, but they will help ensure your survival in a shooting or gunfight on the street. ~Paul Howe

  16. #210
    VIP Member
    Array atctimmy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    NSA Headquarters
    Posts
    6,368
    I move that we declare this thread an impasse and we all drive on.

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Search tags for this page

ayoob's masterful tome stressfire ii: advanced combat shotgun

,
is a shotgun useless
,

lmt 10.5

,

lmt 12.5

,
powered by mybb kids next door
,
powered by mybb neoprene vest by remington arms
,

powered by mybb projectiles

,

shotgun useless

,

shotguns are useless

,
stevens 320 door breacher
,

winchester super x #1 buckshot

,
winchester super x #1 buckshot inside
Click on a term to search for related topics.