Is a shotgun "useless"?

This is a discussion on Is a shotgun "useless"? within the Defensive Rifles & Shotgun Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; I have an 870 with the magazine loaded in my bedroom. There is something about the sound of loading the chamber with the pump action. ...

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Thread: Is a shotgun "useless"?

  1. #226
    VIP Member Array Dangerfield's Avatar
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    I have an 870 with the magazine loaded in my bedroom. There is something about the sound of loading the chamber with the pump action. Everybody who hears it knows exactly what it is without seeing it. I believe this sound will intimidate an intruder and if not I have a better chance hitting my target.
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  3. #227
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    I like the Mossberg 500, grew up shooting them. And the security field combo is a really great buy if someone is going to buy one gun.

    I have thought about getting a double, I'd like a Stoeger coach gun supreme with choke tubes. I could use it for turkeys, and HD. Plus a double barrel does have a certain intimidation factor when you are looking down both barrels.....
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  4. #228
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    Quote Originally Posted by glockman10mm View Post
    Yeah, almost like sitting around the fire shootin the bull. I like it.

    So, in that spirit, what's the opinions of the preferred shotty of choice? Action? Pros and cons of each?
    I say it depends on the mission profile.

    Trap - to do real well, a dedicated trap gun helps. It is not a requirement, but like most tools, if you have the right tool, the job is easier to do well.

    Skeet/Sporting Clays - I like a good O/U with a 26-28" barrel - well balanced and swings well.

    Deer hunting in slug states- I like my M500 with a 24" sighted slug barrel. This was the first gun I bought and I got the combo with the slug barrel and 30" screw in choke barrel. Best $125 I ever spent. Since then I have added a tactical stock and an 18.5" cylinder barrel.

    Turkeys - M500 with a red dot sight and the screw in choke barrel. Conditions are often nasty - why mess up an O/U when the M500 does fine.

    Small Birds - depends on the weather. If it is nice, I will take the O/U. If not, the M500 with the screw in choke barrel. Then again, I might opt for 20 ga to make it more fun.

    HD - M500 with the tactical stock in the short position and the 18.5" barrel - assuming I am not using a M4.
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  5. #229
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    WOW !!! The guy that started this forum really got us all worked up, goin at each other, dodge city on cyber war yee ha !!! Man I love it, but at the end were all friends again, COOL...
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  6. #230
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miamieddie View Post
    WOW !!! The guy that started this forum really got us all worked up, goin at each other, dodge city on cyber war yee ha !!! Man I love it, but at the end were all friends again, COOL...
    That's generally how it works around here. Welcome to the club.
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  7. #231
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    Ok, I'm nothing if not persistent (and curious). I emailed a few safari outfitters on the buckshot for lions question. Apologies if I upset the recent tranquility of the thread, but here are the responses from PH's and one staff member in Africa [bolded is mine]:

    Thanks for your email.
    Going after lions with a shotgun is a seriously stupid decision. The only reason is that a shotgun doesn’t penetrate on a lion and it doesn’t have the stopping power like a Big 5 rifle. A charging lion is something coming at you at very high speed, you have one shot make it count.
    Best Regards
    Adrian de Guisti
    Gotsoma Safaris


    I am not a PH but I have hunted Africa a bunch as have my clients. Most PH's carry a large caliber rifle when lion hunting. Usually a .458 Lott or bigger and that is there "stopping gun". I have heard of 00 buck being used on leopards but generally not lions. These are generalizations and it is conceivable that some PH's would use a shotgun on lion but not many.I think the reason is because any stopping gun must be able to stop an elephant or buffalo as well and a shotgun would only serve to annoy an elephant of buffalo.

    Todd


    Sorry to burst your bubble, but the reality is, we never use shotguns for a follow up on a Lion…
    We do on Leopard sometimes, but not Lion.The reason is the way they run when they charge you. A leopard runs in a zig zag motion, close to the ground and very, very quick. It is very difficult to hit with just a single shot gun, hence the use of a shotgun.A lion on the other hand runs upright and in a straight line, making it easier to line up with a normal rifle. When following up a Lion, I (and all other PH’s I know) always only use my Rem 416.

    Hope that makes sense.
    Talk soon!
    Riaan van der Merwe
    Phirima Safaris

  8. #232
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    Quote Originally Posted by glockman10mm View Post
    I really like my double. But, I think the Mossy 500 series is a great value for the money. Especially the model with the riot and hunting barrel combo. A good working mans shotty.
    Have you ever shot slugs out of your double?

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  9. #233
    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zacii View Post
    Have you ever shot slugs out of your double?

    Sent from my Galaxy S2
    No. But sometime back when, I read an article where one of the foreign makes had barrel inserts to allow the use of the 45-70. Now that would be a cool thing to have, essentially turning the shotgun into a double rifle for dangerous game.
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  10. #234
    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
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    Nedrgr21, I think you are finding out that on a " big five" game hunt this is true.

    However, it depends largely on terrain. Africa has alot of different terrain.

    In the areas I hunt, in the Limpopo Province, it's the Bushveld area. Vision and shot distance are limited due to thick growth, and this is primarily the place where the shotgun for lion takes over as a back up to a charge attack.
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  11. #235
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    Quote Originally Posted by glockman10mm View Post
    Yeah, almost like sitting around the fire shootin the bull. I like it.

    So, in that spirit, what's the opinions of the preferred shotty of choice? Action? Pros and cons of each?
    I don't have enough experience with different models to say. What I can say about my experiences is that I much prefer the Remington 870 to the Mossberg 500. Two main reasons are the safety and the ability to jack the shell from the chamber and replace it with a different type without having to eject two shells. The second is not a big deal, but it is still a difference. So for a pump action, I prefer the 870.

    For semi auto, I own the Benelli M4 and have some experience with the 1100. I prefer the Benelli, but that's likely due to having more experience with it than I do the 1100. If I were to use the Benelli for home defense, I'd replace the stock with a collapsible version, add a magazine tube extension and very likely SBS it to 14.5".

    Compared to my ARs, the shotguns are just larger and more unwieldy, plus they just don't feel as fast in my hands. Surely that's due to training, but I really don't feel like spending the next year or two working on my shotgun skills and attending advanced classes to get my proficiency level up when I'd likely stick to the handgun and AR anyway.

    Given the choice, I'd probably go with the Benelli M4 with a 14.5" barrel. In addition to the ghost ring and tritium front, I'd run the Trijicon Mini RMR or Aimpoint T1, a four shell side saddle with slugs and buckshot, extended mag tube, a Surefire Scout light and an extended safety. I'd keep it loaded with 00 or 1 buckshot, something like Hornady's or Federal's Tactical/LE reduced recoil loadings.

    Still, it comes down to size, speed and the ability to maneuver quickly, whether alone or dragging a kid back with me. Also, for work reasons, it's blatantly clear the AR is the superior choice for me over a shotgun...

    Benelli M4 next to a BCM 14.5".......again.



    The BCM 14.5" next to the LMT 10.5", which is my first choice. I prefer between a 10.5" to 12.5" for indoor use. Replaced the pic to show the 16" SCAR H as well.



    Here's the 10.5". Notice that the muzzle is around the same distance from my body as a handgun would be. Very efficient weapon.



    And just for fun, notice my MP5 in my avatar. That was one enjoyable little gun.
    Last edited by jonconsiglio; October 18th, 2012 at 10:27 AM.
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  12. #236
    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
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    My favorite shotgun is a an Italian Perdersoli black powder double gun I keep loaded with nails and broken glass....

    Nah, just kidding! I know at this point Jon is rolling on the floor pulling out his hair and having a kiniption fit, lol.

    I have 3 AR platforms, 1 Bushy A2, and 2 Colt M4s. They are real battle guns, and I have a sort of attachment to them because of familiarization from 8 years of military service. Additionally they get used during SRT training, and as special transport vehicle weapons. They are all stock configuration.

    But my real enjoyable guns are the older designs. They are just more fun for me and I enjoy using them more.

    I do have the Pedersoli, in a 10 bore, that I have used for turkey hunting. It's fun to shoot, but I hate the black powder clean up afterwards.

    I had a Franchi, which was very light, and a great all round hunting shotgun.
    I could kick myself for letting it get away.
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  13. #237
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    I......just......can't......take......any......mor e......!!!

    Stop it. Just freakin' STOP IT...!
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    Proven combat techniques may not be flashy and may require a bit more physical effort on the part of the shooter. Further, they may not win competition matches, but they will help ensure your survival in a shooting or gunfight on the street. ~Paul Howe

  14. #238
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    I think it's cool how people can be on different ends of what they like, and what they place emphasis on and talk about it.
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  15. #239
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    Jon, I think in that last pic of you in the camo shirt, you would look much cooler with a Marlin Guide Gun in your hands.
    Ignorance is a long way from stupid, but left unchecked, can get there real fast.

  16. #240
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    Quote Originally Posted by glockman10mm View Post
    Jon, I think in that last pic of you in the camo shirt, you would look much cooler with a Marlin Guide Gun in your hands.
    Now you're just poking him with a stick, Gman.
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