Is a shotgun "useless"?

This is a discussion on Is a shotgun "useless"? within the Defensive Rifles & Shotgun Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Originally Posted by goldshellback This is just me...... If your in a firefight where more than ANY number of rounds are exchanged, your in a ...

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Thread: Is a shotgun "useless"?

  1. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by goldshellback View Post
    This is just me......

    If your in a firefight where more than ANY number of rounds are exchanged, your in a bad way. Most gunfights are gonna occur within 30'....
    Isn't that 3 feet?
    Americans understood the right of self-preservation as permitting a citizen to repel force by force
    when the intervention of society... may be too late to prevent an injury.
    -Blackstone’s Commentaries 145–146, n. 42 (1803) in District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. 570 (2008)

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  3. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by pgrass101 View Post
    We use pistol caliber carbines for HD.
    Is that .22?
    Americans understood the right of self-preservation as permitting a citizen to repel force by force
    when the intervention of society... may be too late to prevent an injury.
    -Blackstone’s Commentaries 145–146, n. 42 (1803) in District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. 570 (2008)

  4. #108
    VIP Member Array nedrgr21's Avatar
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    Sorry, I ain't buying it. Why should anyone care about what was used 100 to 200 yrs ago? it's irrelevant; nostalgia's fine for bs'in over drinks, but not when it comes to someone busting down your door. Again, I'm not saying the shotgun is useless, but this crap has got to stop.

    You’re streeeetttttttttttching it again and I gotta call BS:
    A Colt Navy .36 shoots a .375–.380 inch round lead ball weighs 80 grains at a velocity of 1,000 whereas a 00 buck is .33 inch and 54 grains and now you’re actually alluding to it being equivalent to a 44 Mag. Then, when you bring in wounded lions and tigers you've really gone too far. The minimum rifle cartridge on dangerous game hunts is a .375 H&H and everything I've seen says that the guides, whose job includes finishing off wounded dangerous game, use cartridges like 458's, Nitro's, etc. Now you're gonna say that they use 00 Buck? Sorry, that dog won't hunt. Slugs I'll buy, buckshot - no way.

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    My last statement for people that do not have a keen eye for the obvious...I have had a shotgun racked on me, maybe just maybe I am a bumbling idiot that knows what the sound means. If it does not concern a bad guy then maybe just maybe a cascade of number 8 shot will get his attention from 30 feet away. The hallway is narrow. If I jam the barrel of the gun through the drywall on one side or the other because I don't know how to split a 30 foot difference and point the barrel down the middle then maybe I should stop playing with guns altogether.

    I frankly do not see what the point of this forum is except for some folks to exercise their egos. I doubt that very many of you have had a shootout with a bad guy (no I don't mean a bunch of insurgents in Iraq...try a citizen that accidently broke into your house). My point on every thread is to be very clear...I don't ever want to have to use deadly force. I my racking of the slide on either my 20 16 or 12 doesn't get attention, then maybe all at the same time will get attention. Sorry to some of you guys, I am not RAMBO, never will be, but I guarantee you this...if I cannot disuade someone from coming down my hallway by any other means, then number 8 will work pretty good at 30 feet. If one of you guys wants to put together a training video and show me how number 8 did nothing to your behind at 30 feet then I might just think you have something to say worth listening too.

  6. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by lizjimbo View Post
    I frankly do not see what the point of this forum is except for some folks to exercise their egos.
    And yet here you are, posting in it.
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    You made my point

    Quote Originally Posted by munch520 View Post
    And yet here you are, posting in it.
    Did I tell you vanity was my most favorite sin!

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    No one is saying birdshot WILL NOT work. It MIGHT. But it also has a higher chance of not working than buckshot does, for the simple fact that the individual pellets do not have enough mass to reach the vitals on a human. You can search for the tests yourself.

    If someone is INSIDE MY HOME then I want something that will stand a very good chance of reaching his vitals, even if the shot is at an angle, through heavy clothing, or if it first has to go through his hands/arms. Birdshot will not do that reliably.

    If you want to fool yourself into thinking that it will - then you had better be right. Good day to you.
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    I'm not following the reasoning behind even wanting to use #8 instead of, say, a low-recoil buckshot load

    Is it because, deep down, you really don't want to hurt the guy breaking into your home to do who-knows-what to you or your family?

    Of course, I'm still in favor of the 9mm or 5.56 carbine over the shotgun myself.

  10. #114
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    When the world ends and I'm on my way out the door... Other than the pistol on my hip I'm going shotgun all day. So versatile. A well trained hand with the right ammunition for the job can accomplish anything.
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  11. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by nedrgr21 View Post
    Sorry, I ain't buying it. Why should anyone care about what was used 100 to 200 yrs ago? it's irrelevant; nostalgia's fine for bs'in over drinks, but not when it comes to someone busting down your door. Again, I'm not saying the shotgun is useless, but this crap has got to stop.

    You’re streeeetttttttttttching it again and I gotta call BS:
    A Colt Navy .36 shoots a .375–.380 inch round lead ball weighs 80 grains at a velocity of 1,000 whereas a 00 buck is .33 inch and 54 grains and now you’re actually alluding to it being equivalent to a 44 Mag. Then, when you bring in wounded lions and tigers you've really gone too far. The minimum rifle cartridge on dangerous game hunts is a .375 H&H and everything I've seen says that the guides, whose job includes finishing off wounded dangerous game, use cartridges like 458's, Nitro's, etc. Now you're gonna say that they use 00 Buck? Sorry, that dog won't hunt. Slugs I'll buy, buckshot - no way.
    You might want do some actual research before you call the man a liar, many Professional African big game hunters DO use shotguns loaded with buckshot on wounded cats.
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    And Taypo was refering to the Walker Dragoon which is a .44 which held 60g of powder in each cylinder, more than twice what a usual blackpowder revolver holds.


    From Wikipedia
    The Colt Walker was quite powerful, with modern replicas firing modern FFFg black powder producing energy levels in excess of 500 foot pounds with both picket bullets and 0.454-inch-diameter (11.5 mm), 141-grain (9.1 g) round ball bullets. The black powder Colt Walker is regarded as the most powerful commercially manufactured repeating handgun from 1847 until the introduction of the .357 Magnum in 1935, and has a muzzle energy nearly exactly the same as a 4-inch-barreled handgun firing a .357 Magnum.[7] The Colt Walker has long maintained a unique position and mystique among handgun users, and its name is often used as a common expression of any overly large generic handgun example.
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    Quote Originally Posted by lizjimbo View Post
    I doubt that very many of you have had a shootout with a bad guy (no I don't mean a bunch of insurgents in Iraq...try a citizen that accidently broke into your house).
    I have.

    And what the hell is a "citizen that accidentally broke into you house".

    The amount of misinformation in this thread is bordering ridiculous. Unless one has done extensive research on ballistics (it appears Tapoyo has), is it really wise to be recommending ammunition to others based on what the gun store clerk told you? Not directed at anyone in particular, just thinking out loud.
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  14. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by nedrgr21 View Post
    Sorry, I ain't buying it. Why should anyone care about what was used 100 to 200 yrs ago? it's irrelevant; nostalgia's fine for bs'in over drinks, but not when it comes to someone busting down your door. Again, I'm not saying the shotgun is useless, but this crap has got to stop.

    You’re streeeetttttttttttching it again and I gotta call BS:
    A Colt Navy .36 shoots a .375–.380 inch round lead ball weighs 80 grains at a velocity of 1,000 whereas a 00 buck is .33 inch and 54 grains and now you’re actually alluding to it being equivalent to a 44 Mag. Then, when you bring in wounded lions and tigers you've really gone too far. The minimum rifle cartridge on dangerous game hunts is a .375 H&H and everything I've seen says that the guides, whose job includes finishing off wounded dangerous game, use cartridges like 458's, Nitro's, etc. Now you're gonna say that they use 00 Buck? Sorry, that dog won't hunt. Slugs I'll buy, buckshot - no way.
    Damn, I'm glad you asked that question, " why should we care what was used 100..."

    Because other than platform or function there have been no significant changes! Even the relatively new kid on the block, the 40 s&w is a ballistic twin of the 38-40, a BP cartridge used over 100 years ago.

    So the next time an old timer speaks, if ya listen ya might learn something.
    Ignorance is a long way from stupid, but left unchecked, can get there real fast.

  15. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by McDonaldUSMC View Post
    So versatile. A well trained hand with the right ammunition for the job can accomplish anything.
    Very versatile.

    On the game field.

    On the killing fields, not so much.

    When a rifle is needed, a shotgun is a very poor substitute.

  16. #120
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    And, FYI, the minimum rifle on dangerous game is the 9.3x62.
    Ignorance is a long way from stupid, but left unchecked, can get there real fast.

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