New to rifles with questions - Page 4

New to rifles with questions

This is a discussion on New to rifles with questions within the Defensive Rifles & Shotgun Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Apparently aus71383 and I are not just geographically at opposite ends. Not all frangible ammo is 'safety' ammo. Some is designed for training where lead ...

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  1. #46
    Member Array VaGentleman's Avatar
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    Apparently aus71383 and I are not just geographically at opposite ends.

    Not all frangible ammo is 'safety' ammo. Some is designed for training where lead splatter and ricochet is an issue in close quarters drills. It will fragment against a steel plate or backstop - not drywall. It's easy to find plenty of tests where the 'safety' ammo easily penetrates interior walls. tests show that most safety ammo, when it works on a human target, gives 4-8" penetration. The makers talk about complete energy transfer since the slug doesn't exit. True, but energy transfer is not the issue. The energy from a handgun or common rifle cal is not enough to knock someone down. What stops the attacker is a deep wound channel into the vital areas creating blood loss and damage to critical components. That's why the FBI tests demand 12 - 15" penetration - 2 to 3x what the safety slugs give.
    I was unable to find any test where someone fired a 'safety' round from a .308 (or .223 for that matter) at an interior wall from 10 - 15 feet (room distance) and it failed to penetrate. If it's available I would love to see it.


    Speaking of frangible ammo, Wiley Clapp says this (5/29/2012):


    Apparently, there are some shooters, who are understandably concerned about over-penetration, that have concluded that this kind of ammo might be just the ticket for shooting attackers in the house. Please don't do this—it is not a good idea. The best ammo for home-defense is still a well-designed jacketed hollow-point round. Invariably, this kind of ammunition is developed to deliver the JHP bullet at a speed that will cause that hollow point to open and expand, assuming normal (short) combat distances and a center of mass hit. By the way, a seldom-appreciated benefit of a hollow point is enough expansion to increase the bullet's frontal diameter. This gives a greater braking effect in tissue and the bullet stops sooner than hard, non-deforming solid or FMJ bullets. If you should be so unfortunate as to be faced with a home invader in a justifiable shooting situation, the idea is to stop the attack quickly. The best bullet for the job is the aforementioned JHP. You should not expect the ammo maker to protect you with a disintegrating slug that breaks up on hard surfaces in the event that you miss. That's even truer when a hit with this stuff produces no better effect than a good JHP.


    Frangible Ammo

    In the end, it always seems to come down to - if you can't make the shot, don't take the shot.


  2. #47
    VIP Member Array aus71383's Avatar
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    Yeah - I'm not talking about frangible ammo. I'm talking about quality rifle ammo that fragments and penetrates to an ideal depth, causing more damage than any pistol bullet could.

    Austin

  3. #48
    Member Array VaGentleman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aus71383 View Post
    Yeah - I'm not talking about frangible ammo. I'm talking about quality rifle ammo that fragments and penetrates to an ideal depth, causing more damage than any pistol bullet could.

    Austin
    Can you provide a link to the ammo or the testing you refer to? I'm not trying to be a pain, but I am really confused about this ammo you are talking about. Thanks

  4. #49
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