This is a discussion on Windham Weaponry Factory Tour within the Defensive Rifles & Shotgun Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Originally Posted by atctimmy I think what bothers me is when people over pay for a lesser specced rifle. I want people to get all ...
Quality has degrees. If something doesn't measure up to the standard, being parts specs and assembly specs, then the quality is less. Craftsmanship is generally attributed to one actually making (ie crafting) something, not a parts assembler. WW doesn't make anything in house, not even the major components. They are like most other AR15 "manufacturers", my company included, that buy a bunch of parts and assemble them to a complete firearm. Just to put it out there, I buy mil spec parts and assemble them to the TM. It's the quality of the parts and the quality of the assembly that matters. The measuring stick is mil spec. The AR15 is a military weapon and was designed for military use and has served a few decades in combat in a lot of conditions. It's a proven result with a vast amount of success and very little failure (the 'Nam era crap went against the design and therefore wasn't a failure of the weapon as designed) over time. That's the essence of quality. These parts to these specs assembled to this spec is fit for the worst use possible: land warfare against other human beings. That's a quality weapon if it can do that. That becomes then the quality standard. To not meet those parts specs or assembly specs is thus not to the same quality as the standard and proven. Is it better quality or lesser quality? Some things are obvious, but some things in the mil spec are unnecessary.The claims that one brand is over priced garbage while other brands are wonders of fitment and quality in the same price point never seem to end. The fact is, those of us who own WW rifles know one thing to be true -- they're quality built rifles that perform quite well. All the speculation as to their poor quality and lack of craftsmanship are just that, speculation. I've yet to meet a WW rifle owner who had anything negative to say about their firearm.
07/02 FFL/SOT since 2006
"The measuring stick is mil spec."
God...I Hope Not. If you were doing a custom "1911 Build" ~ Which barrel would you rather have in your firearm?
I would say that virtually ever single high quality commercial aftermarket 1911 part far exceeds what were original Govt. Military specifications with regard to materials, precision machining, overall exacting tolerances, and heat treatment.
Take 1911 barrels For Example. - You can look at Briley, Wilson, Storm Lake, Kart, Nowlin, Shilen, Montana, BarSto, Fusion, etc. & they all exceed Govt MIL Spec in every facet of manufacture.
That is not to say that there is anything wrong with a Mil Standard Official Mil Spec 1911 barrel but there ARE better barrel options out there.
New Old Stock 1911 Barrel Govt MIL-SPEC Chrome Lined. Vietnam Era
High Quality aftermarket, commercial, precision machined, heat treated, Stainless 1911 barrel.
It is really no different for the AR. The high quality commercial aftermarket "parts" out there meet & exceed Mil Specifications.
Pick up the latest Brownell's catalog. It is a "parts candy store" for the AR these days & the aftermarket manufacturers are taking every AR internal and external AR part and upgrading it.
The AR is fast going down the exact same road as the 1911 for which you can now purchase a Tool Steel EDMed heat treated, precision machined, precision honed...and polished uber~high tolerance 1911 hammer...for only $97.00 + TAX.
Liberty Over Tyranny Μολὼν λαβέ
Hmmm. After reading Tubby's post it appears that the gild my be coming off of the PSA lily. maybe I'll stop pointing people in that direction for a while. At least until more data comes in.
For the record, I have a full PSA lower and have owned a second lower assembled with PSA parts plus a BCG and all of my stuff was/is just fine.
Last edited by atctimmy; December 1st, 2012 at 03:29 PM. Reason: typo
If one desires a normal duty gun, a barrel that conforms with the TDP will work just fine. It may not be 1MOA accurate but it will function reliably. However, one may also get lucky. With Privi 75gr match, I recently shot 1.5MOA at 100 with my SBR. Pleasantly surprised.
If one desires pinpoint accuracy, I agree that milspec won't cut it. This is why Noveske, Centurion, etc. are in business.
Monotony is the awful reward for the careful
How can man die better than facing fearful odds, for the ashes of his fathers and the temples of his Gods?
I've been doing some extensively broad research, while continuing too fill my piggy with coin, to buy my first BR.
It has come to my attention that what-ever manufacturer I do examine. BM, RRA, S&W, Sig, ST. They are all pricing out within a couple hundred dollars of each-other.
So I'm going to save that extra couple hundred bucks, and I'm tiring to decide between getting an (in alphabetical order) BCM or a Colt or a DD.
Those three all get the top billing's from everything I've read to-date and, they all are a-boot $1.2k; as are most of their competence. So If I can get a Lincoln for a-boot the price of a Smart-For-Two, why would I even consider getting the Smart-For-Two?
A coworker's father just bought three WW carbines this week. I'm anxious to shoot one.
I would go DD over colt or BCM. Their rifles are extremely nice, and their rails are one of the best in the business.
Again 1911s not ARs but I hear what you're saying.
My only point was that right now there is not much difference.
Let's say that you wanted to do an AR build and you were shopping around for a lower.
Right now you have your choice of: CMMG, Yankee Hill Machine, Bushmaster, Aero Precision, Double Star, Tactical Machining, Patriot Ordnance, Black Rain, Superior Arms, DPMS, Rock River, Roggio Arsenal, J.P. Enterprises, D.S. Arms, & I'm certain there are others that I've neglected to mention & prices are all over the place and I'm certain the list will be growing.
The AR is fast becoming the "1911" of the rifle world with regard to available "parts"/accessories ~ if...it's not there already.
Liberty Over Tyranny Μολὼν λαβέ
At Walmart yesterday 799 for the Windham. While not a steal it not bad for that weapon . If others are bring what they are now that weapon is sure worth 799.
I would buy it before a Bushmaster at 750.
"Mil-Spec" is to quality as the Mayan 2012 crap is to the end of the world!