Windham Weaponry Factory Tour

This is a discussion on Windham Weaponry Factory Tour within the Defensive Rifles & Shotgun Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Originally Posted by atctimmy I think what bothers me is when people over pay for a lesser specced rifle. I want people to get all ...

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  1. #91
    RKM
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    Quote Originally Posted by atctimmy View Post
    I think what bothers me is when people over pay for a lesser specced rifle. I want people to get all they can for their dollar.

    I bought my M&P 15 for $599 (after a $100 rebate from the factory). It wasn't the sport model either, it was the standard M&P with all the bells. Does it bother me that my M&P isn't up to the TDP? Heck no! At the price I paid I feel like I stole it. What would bother me is if I paid $1100 for it and it wasn't up to spec. Then I'd feel like I got taken.

    So, if you got a good deal on your WW then good on you. I think a WW would be a great rifle for most people especially at a price point of around $700. The problem many posters here have is when folks pay a higher price for a lower specced AR.

    I just want folks to know that they can get into a PSA around $750 or a BCM at around $1000. At those prices a WW at $850 doesn't look so spiffy anymore. To me, and to many posters in this thread, it's really all about getting the most gun for your hard earned money. It's about informing people that, in many cases, you can get more gun for the same money.
    I paid just under $1000 for my M&P15X, came with a Troy quad rail. This was back in 2010, and prices for Colts, which I was actually looking for were actually still almost $1500. It hasn't been until recently the prices dropped on Colts. I still see M&P's listed close to $1000 in major sporting goods stores and then see Colts at Wal-Mart for the same price. Makes me wonder why S&W or Bushmaster don't start lowering their prices to compete with Colt. I've been very happy with my S&W, granted, I do run a BCM BCG and H2 buffer in it.

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  3. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by RKM View Post
    I paid just under $1000 for my M&P15X, came with a Troy quad rail. This was back in 2010, and prices for Colts, which I was actually looking for were actually still almost $1500. It hasn't been until recently the prices dropped on Colts. I still see M&P's listed close to $1000 in major sporting goods stores and then see Colts at Wal-Mart for the same price. Makes me wonder why S&W or Bushmaster don't start lowering their prices to compete with Colt. I've been very happy with my S&W, granted, I do run a BCM BCG and H2 buffer in it.
    I like mine too. Bone stock other than some MagPul goodness.

  4. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by MilitaryArms View Post
    Tubby45 tells us the forms are awash with quality issues on PSA rifles with regards to the fitment of front handguard retainers.
    Your word, not mine. In addition to the proper selection of HG caps not being respected, PSA has been known on several occasions to install hammer springs backward, install AR10 RE tubes instead of AR15 RE tubes, not install gas tube pin, and my favorite: install the end plate without the takedown pin, spring, and detent.

    The claims that one brand is over priced garbage while other brands are wonders of fitment and quality in the same price point never seem to end. The fact is, those of us who own WW rifles know one thing to be true -- they're quality built rifles that perform quite well. All the speculation as to their poor quality and lack of craftsmanship are just that, speculation. I've yet to meet a WW rifle owner who had anything negative to say about their firearm.
    Quality has degrees. If something doesn't measure up to the standard, being parts specs and assembly specs, then the quality is less. Craftsmanship is generally attributed to one actually making (ie crafting) something, not a parts assembler. WW doesn't make anything in house, not even the major components. They are like most other AR15 "manufacturers", my company included, that buy a bunch of parts and assemble them to a complete firearm. Just to put it out there, I buy mil spec parts and assemble them to the TM. It's the quality of the parts and the quality of the assembly that matters. The measuring stick is mil spec. The AR15 is a military weapon and was designed for military use and has served a few decades in combat in a lot of conditions. It's a proven result with a vast amount of success and very little failure (the 'Nam era crap went against the design and therefore wasn't a failure of the weapon as designed) over time. That's the essence of quality. These parts to these specs assembled to this spec is fit for the worst use possible: land warfare against other human beings. That's a quality weapon if it can do that. That becomes then the quality standard. To not meet those parts specs or assembly specs is thus not to the same quality as the standard and proven. Is it better quality or lesser quality? Some things are obvious, but some things in the mil spec are unnecessary.
    07/02 FFL/SOT since 2006

  5. #94
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    "The measuring stick is mil spec."

    God...I Hope Not. If you were doing a custom "1911 Build" ~ Which barrel would you rather have in your firearm?
    I would say that virtually ever single high quality commercial aftermarket 1911 part far exceeds what were original Govt. Military specifications with regard to materials, precision machining, overall exacting tolerances, and heat treatment.
    Take 1911 barrels For Example. - You can look at Briley, Wilson, Storm Lake, Kart, Nowlin, Shilen, Montana, BarSto, Fusion, etc. & they all exceed Govt MIL Spec in every facet of manufacture.
    That is not to say that there is anything wrong with a Mil Standard Official Mil Spec 1911 barrel but there ARE better barrel options out there.


    New Old Stock 1911 Barrel Govt MIL-SPEC Chrome Lined. Vietnam Era


    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    High Quality aftermarket, commercial, precision machined, heat treated, Stainless 1911 barrel.


    It is really no different for the AR. The high quality commercial aftermarket "parts" out there meet & exceed Mil Specifications.
    Pick up the latest Brownell's catalog. It is a "parts candy store" for the AR these days & the aftermarket manufacturers are taking every AR internal and external AR part and upgrading it.
    The AR is fast going down the exact same road as the 1911 for which you can now purchase a Tool Steel EDMed heat treated, precision machined, precision honed...and polished uber~high tolerance 1911 hammer...for only $97.00 + TAX.
    Liberty Over Tyranny Μολὼν λαβέ

  6. #95
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    Hmmm. After reading Tubby's post it appears that the gild my be coming off of the PSA lily. maybe I'll stop pointing people in that direction for a while. At least until more data comes in.

    For the record, I have a full PSA lower and have owned a second lower assembled with PSA parts plus a BCG and all of my stuff was/is just fine.
    Last edited by atctimmy; December 1st, 2012 at 02:29 PM. Reason: typo

  7. #96
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    Windham Weaponry Factory Tour

    Quote Originally Posted by QKShooter View Post
    "The measuring stick is mil spec."

    God...I Hope Not. If you were doing a custom "1911 Build" ~ Which barrel would you rather have in your firearm?
    I would say that virtually ever single high quality commercial aftermarket 1911 part far exceeds what were original Govt. Military specifications with regard to materials, precision machining, overall exacting tolerances, and heat treatment.
    Take 1911 barrels For Example. - You can look at Briley, Wilson, Storm Lake, Kart, Nowlin, Shilen, Montana, BarSto, Fusion, etc. & they all exceed Govt MIL Spec in every facet of manufacture.
    That is not to say that there is anything wrong with a Mil Standard Official Mil Spec 1911 barrel but there ARE better barrel options out there.


    New Old Stock 1911 Barrel Govt MIL-SPEC Chrome Lined. Vietnam Era


    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    High Quality aftermarket, commercial, precision machined, heat treated, Stainless 1911 barrel.


    It is really no different for the AR. The high quality commercial aftermarket "parts" out there meet & exceed Mil Specifications.
    Pick up the latest Brownell's catalog. It is a "parts candy store" for the AR these days & the aftermarket manufacturers are taking every AR internal and external AR part and upgrading it.
    The AR is fast going down the exact same road as the 1911 for which you can now purchase a Tool Steel EDMed heat treated, precision machined, precision honed...and polished uber~high tolerance 1911 hammer...for only $97.00 + TAX.
    Again 1911s not ARs but I hear what you're saying. It comes down to use.

    If one desires a normal duty gun, a barrel that conforms with the TDP will work just fine. It may not be 1MOA accurate but it will function reliably. However, one may also get lucky. With Privi 75gr match, I recently shot 1.5MOA at 100 with my SBR. Pleasantly surprised.

    If one desires pinpoint accuracy, I agree that milspec won't cut it. This is why Noveske, Centurion, etc. are in business.
    Monotony is the awful reward for the careful

    How can man die better than facing fearful odds, for the ashes of his fathers and the temples of his Gods?

  8. #97
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    I've been doing some extensively broad research, while continuing too fill my piggy with coin, to buy my first BR.

    It has come to my attention that what-ever manufacturer I do examine. BM, RRA, S&W, Sig, ST. They are all pricing out within a couple hundred dollars of each-other.

    So I'm going to save that extra couple hundred bucks, and I'm tiring to decide between getting an (in alphabetical order) BCM or a Colt or a DD.

    Those three all get the top billing's from everything I've read to-date and, they all are a-boot $1.2k; as are most of their competence. So If I can get a Lincoln for a-boot the price of a Smart-For-Two, why would I even consider getting the Smart-For-Two?

    YMWV

  9. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by zamboni View Post
    I've been doing some extensively broad research, while continuing too fill my piggy with coin, to buy my first BR.

    It has come to my attention that what-ever manufacturer I do examine. BM, RRA, S&W, Sig, ST. They are all pricing out within a couple hundred dollars of each-other.

    So I'm going to save that extra couple hundred bucks, and I'm tiring to decide between getting an (in alphabetical order) BCM or a Colt or a DD.

    Those three all get the top billing's from everything I've read to-date and, they all are a-boot $1.2k; as are most of their competence. So If I can get a Lincoln for a-boot the price of a Smart-For-Two, why would I even consider getting the Smart-For-Two?

    YMWV
    Gas mileage?


    OK, seriously. I agree.

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    A coworker's father just bought three WW carbines this week. I'm anxious to shoot one.

  11. #100
    CJM
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    Quote Originally Posted by zamboni View Post
    I've been doing some extensively broad research, while continuing too fill my piggy with coin, to buy my first BR.

    It has come to my attention that what-ever manufacturer I do examine. BM, RRA, S&W, Sig, ST. They are all pricing out within a couple hundred dollars of each-other.

    So I'm going to save that extra couple hundred bucks, and I'm tiring to decide between getting an (in alphabetical order) BCM or a Colt or a DD.

    Those three all get the top billing's from everything I've read to-date and, they all are a-boot $1.2k; as are most of their competence. So If I can get a Lincoln for a-boot the price of a Smart-For-Two, why would I even consider getting the Smart-For-Two?

    YMWV
    Of the three, I would go with BCM simply because their rifles seem to fit my personal preferences the closest of the three, but you really can't go wrong in choosing from one of those three brands.

  12. #101
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    Windham Weaponry Factory Tour

    I would go DD over colt or BCM. Their rifles are extremely nice, and their rails are one of the best in the business.

  13. #102
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    munch520

    Again 1911s not ARs but I hear what you're saying.

    My only point was that right now there is not much difference.

    Let's say that you wanted to do an AR build and you were shopping around for a lower.

    Right now you have your choice of: CMMG, Yankee Hill Machine, Bushmaster, Aero Precision, Double Star, Tactical Machining, Patriot Ordnance, Black Rain, Superior Arms, DPMS, Rock River, Roggio Arsenal, J.P. Enterprises, D.S. Arms, & I'm certain there are others that I've neglected to mention & prices are all over the place and I'm certain the list will be growing.

    The AR is fast becoming the "1911" of the rifle world with regard to available "parts"/accessories ~ if...it's not there already.
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  14. #103
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    At Walmart yesterday 799 for the Windham. While not a steal it not bad for that weapon . If others are bring what they are now that weapon is sure worth 799.
    I would buy it before a Bushmaster at 750.

  15. #104
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    "Mil-Spec" is to quality as the Mayan 2012 crap is to the end of the world!

  16. #105
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    Windham Weaponry Factory Tour

    Quote Originally Posted by QKShooter View Post
    munch520

    Again 1911s not ARs but I hear what you're saying.

    My only point was that right now there is not much difference.

    Let's say that you wanted to do an AR build and you were shopping around for a lower.

    Right now you have your choice of: CMMG, Yankee Hill Machine, Bushmaster, Aero Precision, Double Star, Tactical Machining, Patriot Ordnance, Black Rain, Superior Arms, DPMS, Rock River, Roggio Arsenal, J.P. Enterprises, D.S. Arms, & I'm certain there are others that I've neglected to mention & prices are all over the place and I'm certain the list will be growing.

    The AR is fast becoming the "1911" of the rifle world with regard to available "parts"/accessories ~ if...it's not there already.
    Definitely agree with that. It will soon be the Honda Civic of firearms
    QKShooter likes this.
    Monotony is the awful reward for the careful

    How can man die better than facing fearful odds, for the ashes of his fathers and the temples of his Gods?

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