Let's talk about the Beneli M4 vs the 870 Tactical shotguns.

Let's talk about the Beneli M4 vs the 870 Tactical shotguns.

This is a discussion on Let's talk about the Beneli M4 vs the 870 Tactical shotguns. within the Defensive Rifles & Shotgun Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; I'm talking here about an 870 tactical, not a hunting 870. i.e. sidesaddle, ghost ring nightsights or RDS or both, tube extension, mounted tactical light, ...

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Thread: Let's talk about the Beneli M4 vs the 870 Tactical shotguns.

  1. #1
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    Let's talk about the Beneli M4 vs the 870 Tactical shotguns.

    I'm talking here about an 870 tactical, not a hunting 870. i.e. sidesaddle, ghost ring nightsights or RDS or both, tube extension, mounted tactical light, etc.

    Use: Home defense, SHTF at home, multi-role situations.

    Of course the M4 is a semi, the 870 a pump. The 870 is time tested and proven, the Marines issue the M4, and having said that, you discuss, I want to listen. And of course it's rare that I can listen without commenting, but I'm gonna try.
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    Senior Member Array yz9890's Avatar
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    Let's talk about the Beneli M4 vs the 870 Tactical shotguns.

    I'm not wealthy enough to consider a $1700-$2300 shotgun as an option when my 590 has always worked just fine. Wish I was. I hear the ARGO operating system is extremely reliable as well as comfortable. I think I read 5+1 is max capacity also where the 870 is 6+1 and the 590 can be had in 8+1.

  3. #3
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    Both are great guns. I prefer my Benneli. Some folks are still hung up about the reliability of semi's. Can't go wrong with either.
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    I've owned an M4 for about 4 years. Yes...it's an expensive piece of equipment. But it has been shown to be a very reliable semi-auto, plus it digests just about anything and is easy to maintain.

    The 870 is also a great weapon, but in one sense this operator/weapon system is not as reliable as the semi-auto operator/weapon system. Any way you cut it the 870 has to be racked manually. While the weapon itself may be perfectly reliable and never fail while being racked, I don't believe I could accomplish this gross motor skill 100% of the time in a lethal force encounter following a massive adrenalin dump.

    Another consideration is that you may be able to put 5 rounds downrange with the 870 fairly quickly. But I bet you could put the same 5 rounds downrange with the M4 in less than half the time of what you could with the 870.

    Just my $0.02.
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    I used to have an 870 and found it to be very ineffective when I would short-rack it on the skeet range. I'm looking at the CZ712 for home, can't afford the Benelli.
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    i owned an M4 - traded it for a super black eagle benelli. I now have a Mossberg 390spx - semi auto and superb for $650

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    Way above my pay grade, that Benelli is.

    I would think the Mossberg 930 SPX would fill the need at a much lower cost.

    As far as pump vs semi auto...if you ever think you would like the ability to transition from buck to slugs, then a pump is a bit easier to work with. Otherwise, a semi auto takes the human element (short stroking) out of the equation, and also reduces recoil somewhat.

    As far as rate of fire goes, I do not think it makes a pracical difference. I hit a clay bird twice in flight with my 870 pump, so if you train you can fire a pump plenty fast.
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    Seems to be an apples to oranges comparison. Why not compare the M4 to the Remington Versa Max Tactical? I'm wanting a tac gun but I'm really wanting a semi-auto. I'd really like to have the M4 but with there being a $500+ difference, I have to ask is it worth the difference? There's nothing like getting what you really want but at the amount you would save by going with the cheaper alternative (Versa Max Tactical), you could get a really nice Pelican case + other accessories and ammo, etc.

    Both the 870 & M4 are great guns from the way I understand it and I wouldn't fault you for going with either one. I'm also inclined to believe the statement that was made about being able to get 5 rounds off faster with the M4 than the 870. I also like the idea of not having to worry about blundering up a gross motor skill under a high pressure situation if you decide to go with the semi-auto.

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    Who's money am I spending? My decision would be btwn the M4 and 11-87. I've seen pumps short stroked - it ain't pretty; but haven't seen a semi jammed up. Not saying they don't and I'm not a shotgun guy, but I think it's a non-issue. I've shot a Super Black Eagle and that's a sweet gun and light weight to boot, but not in my immediate future due to $$$. That Versa Max looks really interesting as well. If I used a shotgun on a regular basis I think I'd buck up for the M4. I think Benelli solved any "switching shells" issue with a semi.

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    The Benelli M4 has changed the way I look at semi auto shotguns. Mine needs a shorter stock, but I'll likely leave it as it's being traded to a buddy of mine.

    After a long day, I don't know how much sense I'll make, so I'll edit this tomorrow! ;)

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    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DefConGun View Post
    Seems to be an apples to oranges comparison. Why not compare the M4 to the Remington Versa Max Tactical? I'm wanting a tac gun but I'm really wanting a semi-auto. I'd really like to have the M4 but with there being a $500+ difference, I have to ask is it worth the difference? There's nothing like getting what you really want but at the amount you would save by going with the cheaper alternative (Versa Max Tactical), you could get a really nice Pelican case + other accessories and ammo, etc.

    Both the 870 & M4 are great guns from the way I understand it and I wouldn't fault you for going with either one. I'm also inclined to believe the statement that was made about being able to get 5 rounds off faster with the M4 than the 870. I also like the idea of not having to worry about blundering up a gross motor skill under a high pressure situation if you decide to go with the semi-auto.
    I never had to shoot my Pelican case in combat or HD. I think that money would be better spent on the gun itself. I get your point though. But realisticaly you don't need all that many accesories for HD and the ones you want can be saved up for. But I would put the money into the core of your battle system. My 2 cents.

    And yes, I am a pround owner of a Benelli :)
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  12. #12
    Distinguished Member Array DefConGun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    I never had to shoot my Pelican case in combat or HD. I think that money would be better spent on the gun itself. I get your point though. But realisticaly you don't need all that many accesories for HD and the ones you want can be saved up for. But I would put the money into the core of your battle system. My 2 cents.

    And yes, I am a pround owner of a Benelli :)
    I understand what you're saying and I would agree if I believed you were making a sacrifice and going with an inferior gun as a means to get the aforementioned accessories. I don't, however, believe that you would be putting yourself or your life in jeopardy by choosing the Versa Max over the M4. If accessories aren't your thing then consider this, you could put the $500+ that you would save and apply it to training. A Versa Max accompanied by training from a professional could benefit you more than an M4 w/no professional training.

    Please don't get me wrong, I think the M4 is great and I even want one but I'm just throwing some things out to consider.

  13. #13
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    Just a couple of comments about some points:

    Quote Originally Posted by yz9890 View Post
    I'm not wealthy enough to consider a $1700-$2300 shotgun as an option when my 590 has always worked just fine. Wish I was. I hear the ARGO operating system is extremely reliable as well as comfortable. I think I read 5+1 is max capacity also where the 870 is 6+1 and the 590 can be had in 8+1.
    The Benelli M4 is pricy - $1700 at Bud's (last in stock price)

    Quote Originally Posted by 10thmtn View Post
    ...As far as pump vs semi auto...if you ever think you would like the ability to transition from buck to slugs, then a pump is a bit easier to work with...
    Well, that's what I was thinking, but then I remember how a Benelli M2 works - I can't say for sure the M4 works the same, but I would think they would. Let's start with an 870 fully loaded with 00 and I need to switch to a slug. To make room in the gun, I have to find the bolt release at the front of the trigger guard (possibly complicated with gloves), and rack the gun. Now I can put the slug in the magazine and again while holding the bolt release, rack the gun - that requires two racks, two rounds on the ground and two bolt release manipulations.

    Same drill with the M2. Press the bolt release button, pull the bolt back which empties the chamber, push the slug in ejection port and the bolt automatically releases and chambers the slug - done!

    Quote Originally Posted by 10thmtn View Post
    ...Otherwise, a semi auto takes the human element (short stroking) out of the equation, and also reduces recoil somewhat...
    Yeah, that's true, and I have seen short stroking - that is a reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by 10thmtn View Post
    ...As far as rate of fire goes, I do not think it makes a practical difference. I hit a clay bird twice in flight with my 870 pump, so if you train you can fire a pump plenty fast.
    I agree. In my 5 day shotgun class at Gunsite, they did a class test to put a little stress into the drills. A police officer had a Benelli M4 and I had a Scattergun Technology 870. They scored and timed all our drills. He and I tied on the top score and they finally found he was 0.3 second faster on one drill than me. When I shot that drill, I did not realize it was being timed, I thought that one was a score only drill. I could have easily gone 0.3 second faster.

    Quote Originally Posted by DefConGun View Post
    Seems to be an apples to oranges comparison. Why not compare the M4 to the Remington Versa Max Tactical?
    Well, that's a good point. I guess I'm thinking the M4 represents a time proven semi design and the 870 a time proven pump design, while the Versa Max is really the new kid on the block.

    Quote Originally Posted by DefConGun View Post
    ...I'm wanting a tac gun but I'm really wanting a semi-auto. I'd really like to have the M4 but with there being a $500+ difference, I have to ask is it worth the difference? There's nothing like getting what you really want but at the amount you would save by going with the cheaper alternative (Versa Max Tactical), you could get a really nice Pelican case + other accessories and ammo, etc.
    That's a good point too, the only thing being, the Versa Max doesn't have the 'history' the M4 and 870 do. However, that does seem to be changing rapidly. It looks like the 3-gunners are moving to the Versa Max. The really strong points of the Versa Max is that it will shoot anything from the weakest to the strongest loads WITHOUT changing anything - no gas tube, spring adjustments - nothing - just stack 'em in the magazine in any order and shoot them. And it has the least recoil on the market for a 12 guage.

    Quote Originally Posted by DefConGun View Post
    ...I'm also inclined to believe the statement that was made about being able to get 5 rounds off faster with the M4 than the 870. I also like the idea of not having to worry about blundering up a gross motor skill under a high pressure situation if you decide to go with the semi-auto.
    The speed thing almost depends on the operator/training. Pumps can be shot awfully fast, but it is more complicated to rack the slide and pull the trigger than it is to just pull a trigger - I think there's some reliability advantage to the semi in that regard (operator reliability that is).

    I've been looking at the Versa Max Tactical - $1200 at Bud's - pricey but like you said, $500 less than the M4 and it shoots ALL loads, has less recoil, holds 8+1 rounds. Of course some would consider the 22" barrel a disadvantage, but I can't see there would be many applications where 3.5" on a shotgun would make any difference.
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  14. #14
    Member Array Spovik's Avatar
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    I've been poking around a bit for shotguns myself and while I love the 870, I want semi auto.

    I fondled an H&K tactical shotgun yesterday and i liked it. It was priced used at $750, which I guess wouldn't be too bad, but I don't know much about it. After my research, and my dislike of Mossberg's safety location, I'm personally leaning towards a Remington 1100 TAC-4.

    I'll defiantly be following this thread to see where it goes...

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    Great thread. I have an 870 but I really know nothing about shot guns. I did handle a Wilson 870 the other day - dear me they make fine stuff. Had a light built into the foregrip and though not cheap, less expensive than the M4.

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