Mossberg 500 Persuader 20 GA followed me home.
This is a discussion on Mossberg 500 Persuader 20 GA followed me home. within the Defensive Rifles & Shotgun Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; I gave it to my daughter 5 years ago. She has her GP100 that she likes better and doesn't want the shotgun around the kids, ...
Post By Fitch
November 28th, 2012 04:51 PM
November 28th, 2012 04:51 PM
November 28th, 2012 04:55 PM
Congrats on the awesome choice.. I have one as well and wouldn't trade it for anything.. Pity the fool that forces me to sight in on um with it..
"He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." – Luke 22:36
"If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so." – Thomas Jefferson
November 28th, 2012 05:53 PM
Very nice! I have my light set up very much like that one, on my Mossberg 500 12 G shorty. The one I sleep with...
November 28th, 2012 05:58 PM
Awesome. I used to have a Winchester Defender 20 Gauge pump. Black, with fiber optic front sight and I think around an 8 or 9 round magazine. Wish I had kept it now.
Glock 26 XD9sc
Ruger SR9c Ruger LCP
December 2nd, 2012 02:57 PM
It's just a little inexpensive 20 GA pump (see pictures in OP), but my word, the devastation it visits on the target is sobering to see.
That said, the pattern expanded bigger than I was expecting it to.
I stood as far from the target as I could get, backed up against the RTV at the end of the pea gravel I put on our little shooting range. (The gravel is surrounded by red Hagers Town Clay that makes your boots twice their normal size, and heavy enough to be self removing, in about 3 steps.) I measured the distance. The muzzle was 24' from the target.
Anyway, I racked a 2-3/4" Federal PowerShok with 20 #3 buck into the chamber, aimed at what would be the lower tip of the sternum on the IDPA target and got a beautiful round circle filled with an evenly distributed pattern of holes about 14" in diameter. All 20 pellets accounted for - we counted 20 holes in the otherwise virgin target. 21 if you count the ~1" hole the wadding made.
The distance looked about like from the top of my stairs to the front door, or the distance across the house from the bay window to the front door. Or the length of the upstairs hall. maybe a bit more. It was a bigger pattern than I expected, but I've no complaints. The bead sight is just fine. Don't need a ghost ring or a fancy laser reflex sight - put the bead on their chest and pull. Not trying for sub MOA groups here. Minute of COM works just great. In fact at 24' it appears it would be hard to miss if one aims for COM. Or a head shot for that matter. I didn't try one, the head on an IDPA target is small enough that the pattern would go all around it.
After looking at it, I fired a second one with the result that now the circle had 40 holes in it. #3 buck isn't as big as one might want, but at 1,100 fps it's nothing I'd want to stand in front of.
Then I tried one shot of 3" magnum with 18 #2 Buck. Same size pattern at the same distance, just 2 less slightly bigger holes. The additional mass of the #2 makes it the more desirable load, at least to me. I'd think it would have better penetration. Over penetration isn't an issue.
Just in case you don't remember, I didn't (weight is for an idealized lead sphere):
000 Buck is 0.36" diameter 70.0g
00 Buck is 0.33" diameter 53.8g
0 Buck is 0.32" diameter 49.0g
#1 Buck is 0.30" diameter 40.5g
#2 Buck is 0.27" diameter 29.4g
#3 Buck is 0.25" diameter 23.4g
#4 Buck is 0.24" diameter 20.7g
18 ea 0.27" pellets @ 1,000 fps (1,100 fps MV) is a pretty good thump I'd think. In any event, I'm keeping the little Mossberg loaded with 3" Magnum Federal PowerShok that has the 18 #2 Buck in it. I could be just as happy with the Federal Premium 3" Magnum with the same number and size of shot, but that's not what I have. I will get some and test it though.
After looking at the data, I think the statements about being hit with 9 double ought out of a 12 GA being like 9 rounds from a sub machine gun are a bit of an exaggeration. The sub machine gun bullets would be at least 2.5 times as heavy (147g) and almost as fast which is a lot more thump. That said, nine 00 in the chest would be a pretty nasty hit.
Recoil wasn't an issue. Several years ago (okay, 5 years ago), when I bought the shotgun for her, and we tried it out at the indoor range in Chambersberg, I thought the recoil was substantial. Especially with the 3" magnum shells. However, after doing load development on a 7 lb 7mm Rem. Mag. and a 7mmWSM off the bench this past summer, the little 20 GA is a piece of cake to shoot. Winter jacket didn't hurt either truth be told.
The 2-3/4" shells feel almost like powder puff loads. That's just fine with me. So far I've no desire to run to Schuman's or go online and order this little shotgun's 12GA bigger brother. I could get one for under $300.00 through Rich, but the way the 20 GA performs, I don't feel under gunned at all. Plus, I know I can shoot the 20 rapid fire and keep them on target at the longest distance I'd ever have to shoot here in the house. don't know if I could do that with the 12 GA, but I doubt it.
The load of choice for the 12 GA is 2-3/4" Buck, 9 pellets @ about 1,100 fps. It's a reduced recoil load. The consensus seems to be that in the real world, one doesn't need the 3" magnum 12 GA loads to be effective at indoor distances. A deer at 50 yards, yes, a person, even a big enraged one at 25 feet, no. Blow his face off, it will slow him right down, or at least make it really easy to get out of his way because he can't see.
I plan to buy a 250 shell case of 2-3/4" target loads (about 70 bux or about twenty nine cents each) to practice with because they are a bunch cheaper to shoot and easier to find than the Federal PowerShok buckshot loads (a buck forty each).
I had a box of 5 Winchester Super X 2-3/4" buckshot shells for the 20 GA. 20 #3 buck. I decided to fire them rapid fire, rack, front sight, shoot, rack front sight, shoot, ..., until it clicked from the same spot (24'). Glad I did that last. It literally resulted in basically blowing a 12" hole in the target. The wadding pieces made a big hole. With the 168 cumulative pellet holes from all the shotgun rounds in the target there wasn't a lot left.
The shotgun is really easy to clean. Take out one knurled retaining screw (right on the end of the magazine) and pull the barrel out. Clean it. Put it back. Done.
Cleaning a smooth bore is a piece of cake (especially compared to my .17 Remington). I did run a bronze brush through it 5 strokes but that was the extent of my effort other than 4" square pieces of T-shirt in a big loop. I just used #9. Got it shiny with a few minutes work. Mostly I let it soak after a few brush strokes and then dry patched it.
It's back sitting in the closet with five 3" magnums in the magazine, 4 more in the side saddle, hammer down on an empty chamber so it's easy to rack. It only weighs ~6 lbs and has the short 18.5" barrel so handling it is really easy.
After trying hip shooting it, I want a laser and a light on it. I'm going to make a gadget to hold a StreamLight TLR4 on a rail that will put it where it can be thumb operated the left hand but far enough forward so it doesn't cause a problem when racking the slide.
I decided the commercially available mount that fits 12 GA with spacers to downsize it to fi the 20 GA, is too big and ugly, and it has to be removed every time the shotgun is cleaned. that probably results in the laster being off, so you shoot it to get the laser back where you want it, then it needs to be cleaned, they you shoot it to see where the laser is, and the cycle never ends. That sucks.
I'll make a sketch of what I want and go machine it out of a piece of aluminum. The magazine tube mic's 0.878" OD. It is perfectly round and there is nothing to prevent me from sliding something over the end of it with the barrel removed. I can accurately bore a hole that size, or a thou bigger, on the mill, slice one side (bottom most likely) radially to create a gap for tightening it. Drill and tap it for some a couple of #8 Socket head cap screw clamp bolts and have something that stays put. I'll buy the add on piece of rail that's sold for the big one, drill and tap my gadget to match, and use that as the mount for the light.
They make a gadget sort of like that for 12 GA but not for 20 GA - so I'm going to shamelessly make a copy of the 12 GA one for my 20 GA. Mine won't be all 'tactical matt black' but it should work just fine. Somehow I don't think the bad guy will notice and ask me to have it anodized ... first. But, if he complains, I have an idea for how to make him stop.
PS: Next time I'll take a picture of the target. I forgot to do that this time.
"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity"Sigmund Freud
December 2nd, 2012 03:03 PM
Get a discount ham or turkey from the store and see what a trio of shots does to it. "Devastation" is a fair word.
Originally Posted by Fitch
Nice choice on the Mossberg 20ga. That'll do.
Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
How does disarming
the number of victims?
Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos)
NRA, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.
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