Making a major,drastic change in rifles for SD, and shtf.

This is a discussion on Making a major,drastic change in rifles for SD, and shtf. within the Defensive Rifles & Shotgun Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; I love the M1A, carry it for a few hours and hold someone at gunpoint with one over five minutes and then tell what you ...

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Thread: Making a major,drastic change in rifles for SD, and shtf.

  1. #16
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    I love the M1A, carry it for a few hours and hold someone at gunpoint with one over five minutes and then tell what you think. I found the same conclusion as Glockman with 5.56. We hunt nothing bigger then coyotes as the round is a bit endemic. I guess I am somewhere in the middle as I choose the AK over my AR's as my go to for many reasons.
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  3. #17
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    Almost bought a Springfield SOCOM years ago and really, really like the 7.62 round, but the weight of that rifle, versus the M4 carbine made me stay in the M4 world. I'd just hate to tote that heavy rifle a lot, when hunting, or patrolling. I also don't hunt with the .223 other than varmints. I'd rather use the 30.06 or ..270, 45.70 Marlin Guide Gun (lever action), or if my game is as big as a dinosaur, I'd use my .300 Ultra Mag. I'm a big fan of limited tracking when it comes to deer. As as sidebar, a buddy of mine just bought the Scout which is magazine fed, bolt action rifle in 7.62. Might consider that, if I was in a one gun only contest. Congrats on the man-size rifles my friend.
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  4. #18
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    Interesting thread. I've never hunted with a AR (.225/5.56) since in my area only archery, black powder, and shotgun is allowed. I'm in the process of buying an AR for HD/SHTF but was told it is a perfectly fine rifle/carbine for hunting. I'm starting to re-think this based on what I've read. However, I have a slightly different question. A friend of mine is considering a Hi-Point carbine in .45 ACP. Obviously it would have excellent stopping power. However, besides comments on Hi-Point quality, how useful do you feel such a carbine in .45 would be for HD and SHTF? I'd be concerned about the range mostly (certainly not a hunting firearm). Just curious about others' opinions.
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  5. #19
    Senior Member Array DMan's Avatar
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    I am a fan of the AR - just because they are fun to shoot and cheaper to shoot. I am not defending the AR because I agree the bigger/heavier is better. However, I would rather have something I am familiar with and can use automatically. I can't afford to shoot the larger/heavier rounds to have the familiarity/muscle memory as my smaller caliber guns. I do have my 30.06, but I can't shoot it enough of it to claim it is a SHTF gun.

    To those that argue that they want something with readily available ammo they can pick up from those that no longer need it, my response is - then pick up the gun that uses that ammo at the same time, after all, if they don't need the ammo, they won't need the gun.
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  6. #20
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    I'm with you, glockman. I have a Mini-14 in .223 and a SOCOM-16 in 7.62 X 51mm. If trouble ever comes my way, I'll take the battle rifle caliber over the poodle shooting caliber any day. I can hit bowling pins with my Mini, but if I want to MOVE them, the M1A does that. Sure, you can sometimes see them twitch a bit when the 5.56 round hits them, but when the 7.62 round hits them they MOVE, generally several inches away. The 7.62 just hits harder.
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  7. #21
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    Yes, they are a more all round heavy rifle. Guess I'll just have to do more push ups and " rifle drills ", lol.

    I just do not think the military made the right choice anymore in a battle rifle. It was probably a good choice in jungle where shots were close, and the yawing effect of the high speed pill was at it's maximum, but I think for anything beyond a hundred or so yards, it is very, very lacking.

    And the M4 variant that is so popular for all the wrong reasons with that 16 inch barrel does nothing to help it.

    It's really not been easy for me to go against the grain on this. After all, I have to face the reality, and it goes against popular opinion. But I'll tell ya what, I feel damn good about that M1A rotating bolt and operating rod system, easy access to the chamber, long sight radius, and 20 round mag loaded with 150 grn 30 caliber bullets.

    I should have done this a long time ago.
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  8. #22
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    I have killed a lot of deer and it never ceases to amaze me what kind of damage a real, "high powered" rifle can do. My .308 punches all the way through deer and I have NEVER recovered a bullet, not even when taking a Texas heart shot. I find it sad and somewhat sickening to hear that people think deer hunting is OK with a .223.

    I killed a doe this morning with a 240 grain SST from a 20 gauge. It passed through and sunk about 3 inches into a tree. Lets see your little .223 do that. :)

    ETA: I have seen many errant shots on deer still get the job done because the shooter brought enough gun. I recall once when my dad hit a deer too low and it took both it's front legs off just below the torso. The deer dropped to the ground and the now exposed front leg bones stuck in the mud holding the deer in place like a lawn ornament. My dad was able to effectively place a follow up shot immediately and put meat on our table.

    Many, many times I have seen a deer with it's front shoulder blown to bits from a bullet. All those bone fragments add to the lethality of the hit. A .223 just can't dish it out like the .30s can.
    HotGuns, Bark'n and Sig35seven like this.

  9. #23
    Distinguished Member Array Brady's Avatar
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    Couldn't you have just got a 30 cal. upper for your AR?
    Curious, as I too went AK instead of AR.
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  11. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by glockman10mm View Post
    Yes, they are a more all round heavy rifle. Guess I'll just have to do more push ups and " rifle drills ", lol.

    I just do not think the military made the right choice anymore in a battle rifle. It was probably a good choice in jungle where shots were close, and the yawing effect of the high speed pill was at it's maximum, but I think for anything beyond a hundred or so yards, it is very, very lacking.

    And the M4 variant that is so popular for all the wrong reasons with that 16 inch barrel does nothing to help it.

    It's really not been easy for me to go against the grain on this. After all, I have to face the reality, and it goes against popular opinion. But I'll tell ya what, I feel damn good about that M1A rotating bolt and operating rod system, easy access to the chamber, long sight radius, and 20 round mag loaded with 150 grn 30 caliber bullets.

    I should have done this a long time ago.
    The one thing I really don't like about the M1A platform is that finding solid mounts for optics seems to be difficult and expensive.

    I'm not anti-iron sights, I like iron sights, I think everyone should know how to use them at respectable rifle ranges (like 5-600 yards).

    But, for defensive use, optics make a lot of sense, as they do for precision work.

    That would of course, negate the easy access to the chamber.
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  12. #26
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    I also think( I've been doing this lately), that too much inet crapola is going around about bugging out, carrying x amount of rounds, and all that stuff.

    Plus, the " because I am familiar with" statement that is taken as sound reasoning doesn't fly with me.
    Because what we are really saying is" I'm too dumb to learn anything else, so I'll stick with whatever just because".

    Ok, rambling over:)
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  13. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by glockman10mm View Post
    I also think( I've been doing this lately), that too much inet crapola is going around about bugging out, carrying x amount of rounds, and all that stuff.

    Plus, the " because I am familiar with" statement that is taken as sound reasoning doesn't fly with me.
    Because what we are really saying is" I'm too dumb to learn anything else, so I'll stick with whatever just because".

    Ok, rambling over:)
    I don't know, that statement makes sense to me.

    I have neither the time, nor the money, at this point in my life to get the same level of familiarization with another platform that I gained from having an M-16A4 as my almost constant companion in the Corps.

    I have plenty of other weapons systems, and have fired plenty of rounds through them. But, I have had an M-16 in my hands during moments of sheer terror, and it worked for me then. I know the location of all the controls by heart, the rifle is just second nature to me. Didn't one of the old school gun gurus have a saying "Beware the man who owns only one gun, he probably knows how to use it?"
    Fortes Fortuna Juvat

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  14. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brady View Post
    Couldn't you have just got a 30 cal. upper for your AR?
    Curious, as I too went AK instead of AR.
    Actually, there is nothing about the AR I really like.
    Ignorance is a long way from stupid, but left unchecked, can get there real fast.

  15. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by buckeye .45 View Post
    The one thing I really don't like about the M1A platform is that finding solid mounts for optics seems to be difficult and expensive.

    I'm not anti-iron sights, I like iron sights, I think everyone should know how to use them at respectable rifle ranges (like 5-600 yards).

    But, for defensive use, optics make a lot of sense, as they do for precision work.

    That would of course, negate the easy access to the chamber.
    Yes, for some optics is a consideration.
    Ignorance is a long way from stupid, but left unchecked, can get there real fast.

  16. #30
    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by buckeye .45 View Post
    I don't know, that statement makes sense to me.

    I have neither the time, nor the money, at this point in my life to get the same level of familiarization with another platform that I gained from having an M-16A4 as my almost constant companion in the Corps.

    I have plenty of other weapons systems, and have fired plenty of rounds through them. But, I have had an M-16 in my hands during moments of sheer terror, and it worked for me then. I know the location of all the controls by heart, the rifle is just second nature to me. Didn't one of the old school gun gurus have a saying "Beware the man who owns only one gun, he probably knows how to use it?"
    Not disagreeing with your point, but I spent 8 years using it, and then from 93 till present owning and shooting different variants of it. But the M1a is not complicated, and I have the rest of my life to get used to it.
    Actually, having owned a few mini 14s, I am already there.
    Ignorance is a long way from stupid, but left unchecked, can get there real fast.

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