Making a major,drastic change in rifles for SD, and shtf.

This is a discussion on Making a major,drastic change in rifles for SD, and shtf. within the Defensive Rifles & Shotgun Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Originally Posted by buckeye .45 The Taliban is actually known for removing their dead/wounded from the field whenever possible. There are a number of reasons ...

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Thread: Making a major,drastic change in rifles for SD, and shtf.

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by buckeye .45 View Post
    The Taliban is actually known for removing their dead/wounded from the field whenever possible. There are a number of reasons for this, including cutlural burial rituals, and they believe it will demoralize Americans when we can't figure out how many we killed/wounded. But, they definitely make attempts to not leave their dead/wounded behind, or at least did in 2010.

    EDIT: I would really, really like one of these DS Arms FAL 18" carbines: SA58 FAL Carbine Rifle, .308 Cal. - SA5818-D S Arms

    I think it would be quite the potent rifle. If I was going to go M1A, I believe I would go with the scout rifle model.
    I'll tell you, I absolutely love mine (I don't why DSA used it, but the picture they used is of the SA5816C, instead of using the SA5818C).

    "The pistol, learn it well, carry it always ..." ~ Jeff Cooper

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  3. #62
    Distinguished Member Array Hodad's Avatar
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    C'mon people. With modern ammo most calibers are serious defensive weapons. I have no doubt that my .223 would be more than enough
    weapon to defend myself or my loved one in a dire situation against another human being.

    Remember why the .223 was developed? Not necessarily to terminate the threat, but to incapacitate and occupy his other three or four buddiescarrying him to safety. At least that is my understanding of the concept behind the .223 round.

    Does that mean I won't have my .40 caliber Sig filled with defensive rounds strapped to my belt? Heck no!!

    For hunting anything other than varmints go to something a appropriately bigger just to be humane about taking the animal.
    "Life is tough but it's really tough if you are stupid"

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    VIP Member Array 10thmtn's Avatar
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    This internet nonsense that says the military has doctrine that says it is better to wound than it is to kill has got to stop. I never heard such when I was in uniform. Believe me, when the enemy is shooting at you, you very much want the other guy dead ASAP, so he stops shooting at you!

    Also - we were always trained that wounded comrades would have to wait for treatment until after the firefight was over. If you try to treat them right in the middle of the fight, you endanger the entire unit. So the idea that you take troops out of the fight when you wound a soldier is just not true.
    The more good folks carry guns, the fewer shots the crazies can get off.
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  5. #64
    VIP Member Array Sticks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 10thmtn View Post
    This internet nonsense that says the military has doctrine that says it is better to wound than it is to kill has got to stop. I never heard such when I was in uniform. Believe me, when the enemy is shooting at you, you very much want the other guy dead ASAP, so he stops shooting at you!

    Also - we were always trained that wounded comrades would have to wait for treatment until after the firefight was over. If you try to treat them right in the middle of the fight, you endanger the entire unit. So the idea that you take troops out of the fight when you wound a soldier is just not true.
    It's the behind the lines draw on resources, not in the fight (unless I suppose it was a guerrilla attack/bump and boogy). Having never served, I would not pretend to know, I can only extrapolate the logic behind the thinking.

    There is also very sound logic in wanting very badly the opposing trigger puller out of the fight in a manner that they can no longer pull the trigger, push a button, pull a pin...
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    Grasseater // Grass~eat~er noun, often attributive \ˈgras-ē-tər\
    A person who is incapable of independent thought; a person who is herd animal-like in behavior; one who cannot distinguish between right and wrong; a foolish person.
    See also Sheep

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    Member Array ballfroguy's Avatar
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    The .308 ballistics are awesome, but I have a sks with a tapco stock I got for $200. I have 2k rounds and its cheaper with ammo than buying an
    AR. There is no comparison in rifles but there also is no comparison in bullets. I couldn't afford an m1a or AK because people want a lot for them. My sks will do the job and has on countless hogs/deer so I feel like I came out on top on this one. The 7.62x39 is a great round in my opinion.
    Rock and Glock and aus71383 like this.

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    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
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    I too have an SKS, and it's not going anywhere. I much prefer it over the AK.

    I guess too I am guilty of just liking a rifle to feel like...well, a rifle! I like the non pistol grip and traditional rifle feel.
    bmcgilvray, atctimmy and aus71383 like this.
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    New Member Array marineimage's Avatar
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    Let's remember how the goal changed in firearms for the miliatry. In the most basic form the .223 was intended to inflict catastrophic wound channel and maim to leave the battle field riddled with dying wounded for the physcological effect. (That works more on Americans than on conscripts.) One intention was that two soldiers would be needed to carry one wounded. They were also selected because you could carry a lot more in the same amout of space. The purposes of the .223 was never for knock down. That is why they are NOT the chosen rounds for humane hunting.
    God said, "Fear Not..." over 350 times in the Bible, so, fear not those who can take your freedoms away. Rather, fear the day that no one will fight to save them.

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    New Member Array marineimage's Avatar
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    Addressing the Hi-Point 45. I have a Hi-point 9mm and had a .40 before it was stolen. I have not been able to find a replacement for it in over 6 months. The Hi-Points are super popular for their price, warranty, and reliability. They are VERY reliable but the question is more about real estate. Each gun occupies a space on your body in a bug-out or hunting situation. (Call it what you may.) So does your ammo. So, if you are looking to carry a close range only setup a carbine and handgun ammo match is the best. A hundred .45 rounds takes a lot less space than 50 .45's and 50 .308's or .30/06's. However, the space and energy needed on your shoulder to carry a .30/06, a .308, or the .45 carbine is about the same. I like to keep the Hi-Point carbine as a backup or camp gun. Even my granddaughter loves shooting it and feels perfectly comfortable hog hunting with it. I carry the .308 Saiga with 8+1 on the ready.
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    God said, "Fear Not..." over 350 times in the Bible, so, fear not those who can take your freedoms away. Rather, fear the day that no one will fight to save them.

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    New Member Array marineimage's Avatar
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    One other note if this helps anyone. I did a lot of research and price checking and eventually settled on the .308 Saiga from Izmash for $499.00. This is a new gun with chrome lined barrel and will take the 7.62 and .308 marked ammo. It has a shorter barrel so I attached a 3-9x40 Nikon scope and tested accuracy. It is sufficiently accurate a 100 yards for a hunting scope. I took it out this weekend and sighted with the iron sites at 50 yards to produce a good 2in grouping (great considering I can’t see anything but a red blur for the target). They developed this version off of the 7.62 x 51 AK platform, removed the pistol grip and classic AK wood furniture for a plastic refit and called it the .308 hunting/sport rifle. It is not a ultra high quality tight fitting rifle but after a hundred or so rounds I feel confident it is now my go-to gun for deer/hog/dangerous animal hunting. (8 round magazine comes with rifle. 25 rounders can be purchased and cut down and reassembled for 15, 10, or 8 or as needed for your area.)
    God said, "Fear Not..." over 350 times in the Bible, so, fear not those who can take your freedoms away. Rather, fear the day that no one will fight to save them.

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    VIP Member Array Sticks's Avatar
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    Probably glad I missed that speech. "Oh no, the ergonomics and shape makes it a more deadly firearm than the rest".

    They tried an AWB before (memories are short). Their own Govt' studies showed no discernible change in gun violence during the ban, and there has been no increase in such since the ban died, but a spooky amount of tax revenue was generated in sales and ATF tax stamps for those forbidden items like select fire, SBRs and suppressors.
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    Grasseater // Grass~eat~er noun, often attributive \ˈgras-ē-tər\
    A person who is incapable of independent thought; a person who is herd animal-like in behavior; one who cannot distinguish between right and wrong; a foolish person.
    See also Sheep

  13. #72
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    Sticks is right! However, LOGIC has nothing to do with the current political discussion. Just like "taxing the rich." It makes no discernible difference in the big picture - it has EVERYTHING to do with "fairness." Renewing and tightening the AWB will have no impact on whack jobs and behavior and our elected idiots know it. People will "feel better" about having done SOMETHING, rather than doing nothing.
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  14. #73
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    If an AWB is proposed that deals with looks and/or features, i.e. pistol grips, capacity etc. As posted previously, the M1A would likely be excluded based on the lack of a PG, caliber, it's non-evil look, and capacity.

    Makes you wonder if such an AWB would promote AR's with rifle stocks instead of pistol grips???

    Let's be careful here and try to stay close to the topic and not drift too far into weapon bans and gun control, etc.
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  15. #74
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    I do not own a .223 and have not found it useful for me. I have M1 carbines for PDW's and a FN-FAL for my battle rifle. I prefer .357 magnums for my carry pistols (but do own .38spl's and 9mm's)
    “You can sway a thousand men by appealing to their prejudices quicker than you can convince one man by logic.”

    ― Robert A. Heinlein,

  16. #75
    Senior Member Array Sig35seven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glockman10mm View Post
    But the last straw was a couple of weeks ago. I attended by invitation a culling hunt at a local game farm. There were a few guys there using the AR rifles, and watching the results of the shooting made me sick to my stomach, but it was for me a valuable lesson.
    This sickens me also. Real sportsman they are.
    "Confidence is food for the wise man but liquor for the fool"

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