Making a major,drastic change in rifles for SD, and shtf.

[glockman10mm]

For a long time I have been thinking about this. I carried the M16A2 for years, and saw the effects of the 20 inch barrel on "soft targets" here and there. To tell you the truth, I was never too impressed with the 5.56 and its effectiveness on anything.

But, I suppose since they are popular, and I was trained and familiar with every aspect of the weapons system. I lived with it, and kind of blindly followed the market like cattle do a tractor loaded with hay.

But the last straw was a couple of weeks ago. I attended by invitation a culling hunt at a local game farm. There were a few guys there using the AR rifles, and watching the results of the shooting made me sick to my stomach, but it was for me a valuable lesson.

I am happy to say, that I have no more puny 5.56/223 rifles. What is replacing them?

2 Springfield M1A National Match models with black and OD synthetic stocks, with a supply of 20 round mags, and 500 rounds apiece of ammo.

The rifles are currently on order, and should be in next week.

Yes, I am paying big time, and I have also had to trade a few guns I really wanted to keep, but it saved me alot of cash.

But Ill tell you what; I feel like this is the most sensible upgrade I have made in a long time.

I figure if I need a rifle, I REALLY NEED a rifle, not some puny high speed 22 round. And if its a close threat, I want a big bullet. So, I am super sizing everything, 30 cal rifles, and 45 pistols. When you have to hit someone, hit them hard the first time.
I do believe in bringing enough gun.

[DefensiveCarry.com]

[GetSmith]

Your experiance is far greater than mine and thanks for sharing it. With my little knowledge I chose the AK over AR15 as well. I have 10,000 rounds of 7.62x39 154 grain soft points. I'm in a suburban setting so like you say, if you need a riffle for SD you REALLY need it. I just couldn't see paying for the weaker AR set-up. Riffle is twice the price and ammo is over 30% more costly for less knock down power.

AR's are great and have there place for longer distance application but too many people jump on the band wagon with giving the AK consideration IMO.

[ccw9mm]

Sounds like a good move, if a larger, harder-hitting round is the goal. Particularly if that platform is what you're experienced with. Particularly if you can consolidate and save cash at the same time.

Enjoy the new Springers.

[glockman10mm]

Sounds like a good move, if a larger, harder-hitting round is the goal. Particularly if that platform is what you're experienced with. Particularly if you can consolidate and save cash at the same time.

Enjoy the new Springers.

No, I'm not saving cash. Actually, I am losing my arse in the deal. Ammo is more expensive, and each rifle was about 1700 bucks.

But I like the platform and caliber much, much better.

[kerberos]

Very similar to the reason i purchased a Marlin 336 a few weeks ago instead of saving for an AR..

[glockman10mm]

Very similar to the reason i purchased a Marlin 336 a few weeks ago instead of saving for an AR..

Yeah, round for round there is no comparison.

[JaySkiBum]

I hunt deer with a .30-30 and I hunt coyote with my AR. I'm beginning to realize that a deer is pretty much a human sized target and the coyote is a small dog, and that doesn't really add up if you're trying to get a one shot "knock-down" on a bad guy. Not saying I wouldn't shoot a bad guy with my AR but what you're saying makes a lot of sense. My next firearms purchases will probably reflect your new philosophy.

[ccw9mm]

Yes, I am paying big time, and I have also had to trade a few guns I really wanted to keep, but it saved me alot of cash.

No, I'm not saving cash. Actually, I am losing my arse in the deal. Ammo is more expensive, and each rifle was about 1700 bucks.

But I like the platform and caliber much, much better.

Ah, sorry 'bout that. I figured the "saving cash" comment meant you actually were.

I'm with you, on the platform chance. Heavier, and heavier/larger rounds. A bit spendier on the rifles, sure. But IMO a great choice. Even if it's costing a bit to make the switch.

Photos, including range/accuracy pics, once you've got them up and running. And more photos ...

[buckeye .45]

Let me pose a question:

With the results on your hunt last week, was the issue the shooter, or the round?

Did they take good shots through the boiler room? Or something else?

Just curious.

[HotGuns]

Some misconceptions about hunting.

Lots of people will say its all about shot placement and it is. What they don't realize is that when you have been out all day and you are tired, cold,hot, hungry...whatever it may be, when that animal finally shows up, you are going to take the shot and expect the gun to do its job.

It may be less than an ideal shot, but ifs that all that presents itself, that is what you are going to take.

Its all about discipline and being above to know when to shoot or not shoot. Most people do not have what it takes to hold off.
Even a seemingly prefect shot can be deflected by a twig, a leaf, a branch...even thick grass, so even what looks like an OK shot may turn out not to be so good.

I have said it before and I will say it again, in spite of all those that worship the AR platform. It's a varmint round, always has been and always will be. It works well on people, because people are varmints,they are soft targets and they can be very easy to kill.

Understand, that I am in now way against the AR, in fact I have half a dozen of them and they are great guns...given their limitations.

I don't use them for hunting anything other than varmints. Sure, they will kill anything out there, but so can a .22 short. That doesn't make it the best tool for the job. Its also a reason that deer hunting in some states is illegal with a .22. While some will argue that the local game and fish doesn't know what they are talking about, I will argue that those that matter have seen enough deer maimed and wounded with one to prohibit its use. Killing Pigs? Not so great. Yeah, it'll do it but you'll see as many run off as you will drop right there. Fact of the matter is, pigs are becoming such a problem that many people don't care if they are killed cleanly or not.

I'm in the bigger is better school, always have been. I'll take a .30 caliber any day of the week. Having killed lots of deer with one, I know that it works. I have one in the freezer now that was killed with a .300 Blackout,with a shot that I would not even attempted with a .223.

I look at it like this...
you can frame a house with an 4 oz hammer or you can frame it with a 20 oz hammer. Which one would you rather build the house with? Why?

Of course there will be those that argue for the .223 no matter, but most of them have never dropped a hammer on a living creature, or if they have, maybe it worked on the scant few that they have shot.

Its a simple thing really. Its all about using the right tool for the job. An amateur will grab the wrong tool until he learns a bit and gets experience. A professional knows the capability of his tools and uses them accordingly.

[aus71383]

What ammo was used at the hunt?

Have you ever tried an FAL? It is my favorite....might be cheaper than your M1As, and mags are definitely cheaper too.

Austin

[glockman10mm]

Buckeye, I saw an adult exotic ram shot, in my estimation, under 60-70 yards. It was a good shot, but it ran off. Additional shots were made at it on the run, but it still got out of view.
It was found, but the blood trail was sparse and it was still alive when we found it.

Every animal seemed to absorb alot of 223/5.56 and still get away.

Now, to be fair, I have seen this happen with the 270 and other calibers.

But I have never, ever witnessed such consistent poor performance from anything else.
Deer I kill with a handgun act harder hit and go down constantly better than I have observed with the 223.

I would rather have a 30 cal anything, then the 5.56
And, I really, really like the M1a platform over the AR.

[dukalmighty]

Thats why I have a scoped AR10 in 308 with about 1500 rounds on hand besides my AR15's

[buckeye .45]

Buckeye, I saw an adult exotic ram shot, in my estimation, under 60-70 yards. It was a good shot, but it ran off. Additional shots were made at it on the run, but it still got out of view.
It was found, but the blood trail was sparse and it was still alive when we found it.

Every animal seemed to absorb alot of 223/5.56 and still get away.

Now, to be fair, I have seen this happen with the 270 and other calibers.

But I have never, ever witnessed such consistent poor performance from anything else.
Deer I kill with a handgun act harder hit and go down constantly better than I have observed with the 223.

I would rather have a 30 cal anything, then the 5.56
And, I really, really like the M1a platform over the AR.

I was just curious.

I think I could probably be described as an "AR fanboy." I would not choose one to go hunting deer with, were it legal to rifle hunt in Ohio.

For defense, yes. Part of that is familiarity on my part, part of that is with first hand knowledge and experience. The 5.56 rifle was a compromise from the get go, lower recoil, lighter weight, and higher capacity, but you give up some power.

Lots of people will say its all about shot placement and it is. What they don't realize is that when you have been out all day and you are tired, cold,hot, hungry...whatever it may be, when that animal finally shows up, you are going to take the shot and expect the gun to do its job.

Of course there will be those that argue for the .223 no matter, but most of them have never dropped a hammer on a living creature, or if they have, maybe it worked on the scant few that they have shot.

Those people you are talking about wouldn't be me, would it HG?

G-man, in no way am I knocking your M1A choice, one of those rifles has been on my wish list forever, but, between the cost of the rifle, mags and ammo, I have never acquired one. I am mostly just trying to have an intelligent conversation about the topic.

[HotGuns]

Those people you are talking about wouldn't be me, would it HG?

Nah.
I am reffering to people that call me up to help them track deer.
I an tell you this for a fact...I track more deer that have been shot with the .223 than another other caliber.
Second place is the .243.

Thats just the way it is.