I too am making a drastic change in long guns for SD and SHTF situations...

This is a discussion on I too am making a drastic change in long guns for SD and SHTF situations... within the Defensive Rifles & Shotgun Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Funny. I've actually gone the opposite way. I still have my Rem 870 ready to go in the safe, but up front is the Mini14. ...

Page 2 of 6 FirstFirst 123456 LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 88
Like Tree23Likes

Thread: I too am making a drastic change in long guns for SD and SHTF situations...

  1. #16
    VIP Member Array 10thmtn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    5,864
    Funny. I've actually gone the opposite way. I still have my Rem 870 ready to go in the safe, but up front is the Mini14.

    I just realized that there was no way my wife was ever going to learn to run a pump shotgun. She just isn't interested. The Mini14 is just easier for her to use, should she have to. Simpler manual of arms, more capacity, less recoil, etc.

    One thing to consider is body armor. That is the one weakness of a shotgun. So, just as with a handgun, if the target does not go down, assume body armor and aim for the head.

    Good writeup, Tangle!
    The more good folks carry guns, the fewer shots the crazies can get off.
    www.armedcitizensnetwork.org - member
    Glock 30, 19, 26; Ruger SP101, LCR, LCP (2), Mini 14; Remington 870; Marlin 336 .30-30
    CT Lasers

  2. Remove Ads

  3. #17
    Senior Member Array mulle46's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    NJ
    Posts
    1,164
    Both carbine and shotgun have a place in my hd plan. Although, based on Tangle's write up,I will be looking at gauge and load again.although,with my wife present, we have both covered.
    You gain strength, courage, and confidence by every experience in which you really stop to look fear in the face. You are able to say to yourself, "I have lived through this horror. I can take the next thing that comes along." . . . You must do the thing you think you cannot do. Eleanor Roosevelt

  4. #18
    Senior Moderator
    Array Tangle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Chattanooga
    Posts
    9,669
    Quote Originally Posted by 10thmtn View Post
    Funny. I've actually gone the opposite way. I still have my Rem 870 ready to go in the safe, but up front is the Mini14.

    I just realized that there was no way my wife was ever going to learn to run a pump shotgun. She just isn't interested. The Mini14 is just easier for her to use, should she have to. Simpler manual of arms, more capacity, less recoil, etc.
    Yeah, the shotgun can be a problem due to recoil and regardless of what people think and say, the 'pump' can be problematic in a number of ways - one is what you described. Another is short stroking, and another is forgetting to stroke at all.

    A pump shotgun is not something to take for granted. It takes a little more effort to learn than a carbine and handgun.

    However, most of the shotgun problems referred to here go away with a semi-auto shotgun. Simpler to shoot, no more short stroking, or forgetting to stroke. Just pull the trigger.

    Unfortunately that leaves recoil. Undoubtedly a shotgun is going to have more recoil, but then it's delivering far more firepower to the threat per trigger pull. Nonetheless, if one can't deal with the recoil......Low recoil rounds will help with that some.

    Quote Originally Posted by 10thmtn View Post
    ...One thing to consider is body armor. That is the one weakness of a shotgun. So, just as with a handgun, if the target does not go down, assume body armor and aim for the head.
    Yeah and that is a concern for me. Despite the shotgun's power and versatility, it still won't penetrate body armor. OTOH, depending on what we mean by body armor, a .223/5.56 may not either. If by body armor we mean Kevlar with plates, then the .223/5.56 won't penetrate it either. In fact, a hit on a plate from a .223/5.56 may not even be significant. A shotgun probably would be more distracting.

    However, if by body armor we mean a Kevlar vest, a .223/5.56 may have and advantage because it will penetrate Kevlar vests - as I understand it, and a shotgun won't. But, I would think that if a guy took a hit to the torso, especially the chest area from 00 or a slug, it may stop him from the shear pain and shock. Again, as I understand this, Kevlar itself simply keeps the bullet from penetrating. But it is essentially strong cloth with maybe a bit of padding that would help some. But I expect without plates, the Kevlar would flex with the round into the body, perhaps enough to traumatize the heart if it hits in that area.

    Quote Originally Posted by 10thmtn View Post
    ...Good writeup, Tangle!
    Thanks 10th!!!
    I'm too young to be this old!
    Getting old isn't good for you!

  5. #19
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    25,982
    Nice post, Tangle. Good justification for the humble old shotgun.

    I certainly like what a few shots of 12ga #1 Buck do on a side of beef. That'll do.

    Mossberg 930 12ga semi-auto 8rd shotgun. That'll do, too.
    RKflorida likes this.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  6. #20
    VIP Member Array 10thmtn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    5,864
    Yup, I would think you would be more apt to encounter a BG with soft body armor, than one wearing a full vest and ceramic plates. A carbine will penetrate the former, while a shotgun will not. Neither will penetrate the latter.

    That said, you are right that a hit with a shotgun, even with body armor, will hurt like heck, and possibly still cause some injury.

    My concern with using reduced recoil loads in a semi auto shotgun relates to reliable cycling. Not sure I would ever totally trust them in a semi auto.

    One other benefit of the shotgun is that buckshot WILL deliver a world of hurt. With a carbine, the bullet MIGHT expand, or it MIGHT tumble and fragment - or it may not do either. In other words, the terminal effects of buckshot are more consistent.

    If you are OK with the recoil, manual of arms, and are not concerned with barrier penetration, then a buckshot-loaded shotgun has much to recommend it. And it's cheaper than a carbine, too.

    Either are waaay better than any handgun.
    The more good folks carry guns, the fewer shots the crazies can get off.
    www.armedcitizensnetwork.org - member
    Glock 30, 19, 26; Ruger SP101, LCR, LCP (2), Mini 14; Remington 870; Marlin 336 .30-30
    CT Lasers

  7. #21
    Senior Member Array bandrich's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    S.E. Wisconsin
    Posts
    788
    Great write-up. Now I want a shotgun other than the pheasant hunting gun my father in law left to me after he passed away.
    BA
    Kahr CM9, Beretta PX4 SC .40, Ruger LCP/LM, Dan Wesson .357, Beretta 21A .22, Four Aces .22, H&R .22, Marlin .22 rifle and 1946 Remington 12 gauge.

  8. #22
    VIP Member Array BigJon10125's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    California
    Posts
    3,069
    Great write up! I love my Mossberg 590, 9 rds is tough to beat! It is go to at home for the reasons you stated regarding load options. I consider them extremely versatile. As with every gun there are limits, but I like my odds and chances. If we are leaving, the Marlin 336, Mossberg 590 and a few sidearms are whats coming with us.
    kerberos likes this.
    BigJon


    "Better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than to open it and remove all doubt" ~ Mark Twain

  9. #23
    Senior Moderator
    Array pgrass101's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Alabama
    Posts
    13,450
    Nice write up Tangle,

    Even though I like carbines for HD I have always included a 12ga shotgun for bug-out and shtf plans, mainly because of the versatility of the shotgun. I might have to break out the shot gun and run a few dozen rounds through it again.
    “You can sway a thousand men by appealing to their prejudices quicker than you can convince one man by logic.”

    ― Robert A. Heinlein,

  10. #24
    Member Array mdmorgan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    iowa
    Posts
    308
    Good write up.
    Shot guns have their place, but if I could only have 1 gun it would have to be a carbine. While I am not likely to need to stop a threat beyond shot gun ranges, it could happen. Also reloading a shot gun well takes a lot of practice. Also, good .223 ammo is a lot cheaper than good shot gun ammo.
    The good thing is, for the moment at least, there is no reason not to have both!

  11. #25
    VIP Member
    Array TX expat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Kansas City
    Posts
    3,667
    Excellent post, thank you Tangle!

    A good, HD shotgun should probably be on my short list of things to pick up.

  12. #26
    Senior Member Array hayzor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    716
    Quote Originally Posted by 10thmtn View Post
    One thing to consider is body armor. That is the one weakness of a shotgun. So, just as with a handgun, if the target does not go down, assume body armor and aim for the head.
    I think the body armor argument is overthought.
    As stated above, “, if the target does not go down, assume body armor and aim for the head.”
    I think it is going to be much easier for the average person to put a few a hits on the head/neck area with buckshot than with a rifle or pistol.
    As Tangle states – the shotty is a formidable weapon, and is extremely capable in most situations. I would prefer a shotgun for defensive situations unless the shooting distances started to grow.
    The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it. Albert Einstein

    "People in Arizona carry guns," said a Chandler police spokesman. "You better be careful about who you are picking on."

  13. #27
    VIP Member Array BugDude's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Gulf Coast of Florida
    Posts
    9,331
    That's one of them there Assault Shotguns!!! It's black with a pistol grip and tactical accessories...that means it somehow intrisically is more evil and able to hypnotize anyone who looks at it to be violent.......(we really need a sarcasm font).
    Know Guns, Know Safety, Know Peace.
    No Guns, No Safety, No Peace.


    Guns are like sex and air...its no big deal until YOU can't get any.

  14. #28
    Senior Member
    Array bombthrower77's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    527
    Did up my 870 Express with an 18-in police barrel, mag tube extension and overfolding stock. Just need to get a light on it, pick up some more 00 shells and rifled slugs and I am good to go.
    "There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." ~ P. J. O'Rourke

  15. #29
    Senior Moderator
    Array Tangle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Chattanooga
    Posts
    9,669
    Quote Originally Posted by BugDude View Post
    That's one of them there Assault Shotguns!!! It's black with a pistol grip and tactical accessories...that means it somehow intrisically is more evil and able to hypnotize anyone who looks at it to be violent.......(we really need a sarcasm font).
    It's ok, I'm gonna paint it

    LOL - yeah, we need a sarcasm font!
    I'm too young to be this old!
    Getting old isn't good for you!

  16. #30
    Member Array bubbatime's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    41
    I went from an 870P model, to an AR15 for home defense. Now I'm using a Benelli M2. I too believe that the shotgun puts more lead down range and is a formidable weapon. While the shotgun puts more lead down range, the carbine defeats body armor and is more accurate. I also wouldn't take a hostage rescue shot with a shotgun, but I would with a mini14 or AR15. Each has it's benefits.
    Lifetime NRA member

Page 2 of 6 FirstFirst 123456 LastLast

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Search tags for this page

benelli m2 for shtf

,

federal le132 1b for sale

,
federal le132-1b
,

federal le132-1b for sale

,
federal le133 bs
,
le132 1b new article
,

le132-1b for sale

,

shotgun slug wound

,

shotgun slug wounds

,

tactical 870

,

tactical acuity course

,

xb121 in stock

Click on a term to search for related topics.