I too am making a drastic change in long guns for SD and SHTF situations...

I too am making a drastic change in long guns for SD and SHTF situations...

This is a discussion on I too am making a drastic change in long guns for SD and SHTF situations... within the Defensive Rifles & Shotgun Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; At the end of November, 30-Nov to be exact, I rekindled my interest in shotguns. It was the realization that a 12 ga shotgun could ...

Page 1 of 6 12345 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 88
Like Tree23Likes

Thread: I too am making a drastic change in long guns for SD and SHTF situations...

  1. #1
    Senior Moderator
    Array Tangle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Chattanooga
    Posts
    9,822

    I too am making a drastic change in long guns for SD and SHTF situations...

    At the end of November, 30-Nov to be exact, I rekindled my interest in shotguns. It was the realization that a 12 ga shotgun could deliver far more firepower on a threat than a carbine or handgun. In the summer of 1999 with the ominous approach of Y2K, I decided to get a shotgun and take Gunsite's 5 day tactical shotgun course. That was my first experience with a tactical shotgun, oh I had shot one before some, but never really ran it like I learned to in that 5 days.

    Somehow over the years, I lost my interest in the shotgun as a SD/SHTF weapon, the latter of which was the very reason I bought it. I suppose I became attracted to the AR platform as so many have. Anyway I suddenly realized I could put more hits on a threat with a shotgun than I could with any other gun. My SD/SHTF weapon once again became the 12 gauge tactical shotgun.

    The 12 ga. shotgun, nearly a 3/4" caliber (0.727" to be exact), can put nine 9mm (.33 caliber actually) shots on a threat with one trigger pull! Even with reduced recoil loads, those 9mm size pellets are traveling at 1145 fps for Federal and Winchester (9, 00 pellets) and 1200 fps for Remington managed recoil (8, 00 pellets).

    Even the cheaper stuff is impressive: Royal Buck Low Recoil runs 9, 00 pellets at 1200 fps.

    At 7 yds, basically across a room, any of these loads will put 9, 00 pellets into a fist size group. In the following pics, there is a big hole or tear, that's from the wadding. The real shot is the pellet holes; the wadding holes makes it a little bit harder to see:



    and my favorite,



    One interesting thing I've discovered is the pattern different manufacturers strive for and the lengths they go to to get tighter groups at longer distances. What makes that interesting is that the cheaper 00s actually spread better at closer ranges. But that's one of the beautiful things about the tactical shotgun - you can choose ammo to meet a lot of circumstances.

    Some prefer #4 buckshot (not #4 birdshot, they're different). I haven't shot any #4 yet and can't offer an opinion, but again, the beauty of the tactical shotgun, there's a ammo size, etc. for just about any need and/or preference.

    The ability of a shotgun to put nine 9mm sized pellets (or in the case of #4 buck, a whopping 41, 0.24" caliber pellets) on a threat with one trigger pull is no small thing. Think about how long it would take to get 9 hits out of a pistol or carbine that tight.

    The shotgun doesn't have the range of a rifle, but slugs are good to 75 - 100 yds and that seems more than adequate for SD and SHTF situations. And as you'll see later, given the simplicity of a shotgun, you can buy a rifled barrel and pop it on in as little as 5 minutes with no tools! The rifled barrel gives even more accuracy and range capability.

    For hunting for food in a SHTF situation, nothing is more versatile than a 12 ga shotgun. You can hit birds on the fly with birdshot, squirrels and rabbits, etc. without destroying the meat, switch to 00 or slugs for deer and even 000 for bear.

    A tactical shotgun can hold up to 7 rounds in the mag plus one in the chamber. A sidesaddle like this quick attach/detach Mod 3 from SideArmor can boost the 'on board' capacity to 14. The M4 shown here does not yet have the 7 shot capacity tube, hmmm, I might ought to get that pretty quickly.

    Shown in the two following pics, the shells in the side saddle are set up in a popular fighting orientation with two shells bottoms up for combat loading, followed by two down for speed loading, followed by two slugs bottoms up for changeovers.



    Or you can quickly detach the 6 rounder and replace it with an 8 rounder. The 8 round capacity allows for two combat reloads, four speed reloads, and two slug changeovers for a total on board count of 16.



    Or, if you want to go 'light', you can easily remove the shell holder quickly with no tools.

    The side saddle is quite significant. Some may plan on 'on body' ammo instead of 'on board', but too many times, time and opportunity won't lend itself to more than grabbing the shotgun and moving. You may not have time to put on belts, speed loaders, shell caddies etc.

    It is the ability of the shotgun to deliver devastating firepower quickly, it's versatility, and compactness that makes it so effective for PD and SHTF situations. We've already talked about the firepower so let's move to versatility.

    We alluded to versatility a bit already regarding small and large game hunting, but there's much more. You can get loads from 2-3/4 and 3" to tailor a load for a specific purpose. E.g. turkey and duck/geese require more power to reach longer ranges. You can get reduced recoil, more than adequate for SD, and standard power for more energy and velocity. Plus, you can even get rubber pellets; they are readily available from online sources.

    A tactical shotgun is compact. Not quite as much as a carbine because of the 18" barrel requirement for shotguns. Nonetheless, it is a lot of firepower in a compact package.

    There's the plethora of sights available, from night sights to red dots, to all out scopes. You can buy a shotgun with an 18" barrel and buy a longer barrel for hunting. Mossberg is running a special right now on a shotgun with two barrels. One is a rifled barrel and the other is a turkey barrel. I think it's going for something like $479.

    You can buy a smooth bore and get a rifled barrel for more accuracy and longer ranges. And changing a barrel on a shotgun is easy, requires no tools, and takes about 5 minutes at the most.

    Then there are the stocks and handguards - conventional stocks, synthetic, camos, pistol grip stocks and handguards, railed handguards, handguards with built-in Surefire tactical lights like this Remington tactical 870, although it's more Wilson Combat now than Remington.



    A closer look at the Surefire forend with the tactical light:



    Even more versatility - you can buy an 'entry' level shotgun cheaply and start learning to use it. As time, opportunity, and funds permit, you can add whatever gear/accessories you want until you have a custom shotgun uniquely yours.

    And, shotguns are stupid simple to disassemble, even down to removing the trigger group. Not that we have to be stupid to disassemble them - they're just easy. But all is not easy.

    The shotgun may be the most complex gun to operate that there is. Anyone can load a shotgun and shoot it empty, but that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about running a shotgun proficiently and effectively.

    A common saying in shotgun training is, "If you aren't shooting, you should be loading." That's where training and work with the shotgun is important, especially if you are planning to fight with it. A shotgun may be a low capacity gun, maybe only 4-5 rounds unless you've added an extension tube. Even if you have rounds in a side saddle, or belt caddy, you need to know how to keep the shotgun 'fed'.

    Some of the loading, etc. can be complicated, require a degree of manual dexterity, and mental acuity. E.g. if you realize your threat is out of buckshot range or that the distance is enough that some of the pellets may not hit the threat, or you just need a more precise shot, then you need to know how to do a slug changeover from the way you set up your shotgun. That procedure varies if your carry or short term storage is with a round chambered or not. E.g. do you want to carry a shotgun in a car with a round chambered? That's your call, but however you do it, chambered or not, you have to know how to make the shotgun do what you need it to do from your starting point.

    So that's my shotgun story. You'll probably notice my signature has changed to reflect the shotgun.

    This is too long isn't it
    darbo, Bardo, kmagnuss and 10 others like this.
    I'm too young to be this old!
    Getting old isn't good for you!


  2. #2
    Senior Member Array darbo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Fl
    Posts
    545
    Nice write up. Thanks.

  3. #3
    VIP Member Array sixgun's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    indiana usa
    Posts
    2,563
    Good article. And nice lookin shotgun. Its hard to argue the authoritive firepower of a shotty.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Array KBSR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Gulf Coast, MS
    Posts
    653
    Well done Sir. I've always been torn between my Benelli M3 battle shotgun, and my M4 Carbine for SD/SHTF scenarios. Glad I'm big and strong, and can carry both. LOL Since I can't make a decision between this or that, I always choose this AND that.

    Again, thanks.
    BamaT likes this.
    " But if you are authorized to carry a weapon, and you walk outside without it, just take a deep breath, and say this to yourself... Baa." Col. Dave Grossman on Sheep and Sheepdogs.

  5. #5
    Member Array lokin4deer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Arnold, MO. USA
    Posts
    78
    Thanks for the write up some info that I have been thinking on. One question......

    "Even more versatility - you can buy an 'entry' level shotgun cheaply and start learning to use it. As time, opportunity, and funds permit, you can add whatever gear/accessories you want until you have a custom shotgun uniquely yours."



    What gun would you recommend for this gun? Thanks!

  6. #6
    Member Array Bardo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    148

    I too am making a drastic change in long guns for SD and SHTF situations...

    Quote Originally Posted by lokin4deer View Post
    Thanks for the write up some info that I have been thinking on. One question......

    "Even more versatility - you can buy an 'entry' level shotgun cheaply and start learning to use it. As time, opportunity, and funds permit, you can add whatever gear/accessories you want until you have a custom shotgun uniquely yours."



    What gun would you recommend for this gun? Thanks!
    I just bought an H&R pardner pump a few months ago for $179 at Walmart. Been very happy with it.

  7. #7
    Distinguished Member
    Array miller_man's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Nashville, Tn
    Posts
    1,533
    Very nice Mr. Tangle, as is common with your in depth posts.

    I have thought a shotgun is a VERY good SHTF gun, especially if your going to be hunkering down and bugging in. Your going to be defending your home, not out in the woods needing to make 200 yard shots. I already have a shotty (the cheaper maverick 88) with the 18" and 28" barrels, couple hundred rounds of birshot and couple hundred rounds of defensive 00 buckshot. Up next on my priority list is the surefire light you have in the pics, then adding a second shotgun.

    I'm going to be changing the stocks out sometime soon, since it appears you have both, which do your prefer, pistol grip or the standard rifle stock? Think I lean towards a regular stock, just want it a little shorter LOP. Any prefrence? Advantages/Disadvantages??
    The stupidity of some people NEVER ceases to amaze me.

    G19 AIWB

  8. #8
    Distinguished Member
    Array miller_man's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Nashville, Tn
    Posts
    1,533
    Ya, got my maverick 88 on sale at academy for about $160, been great for me.
    The stupidity of some people NEVER ceases to amaze me.

    G19 AIWB

  9. #9
    Member
    Array BlueHawk76's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    NJ
    Posts
    110
    Nice to hear from, Tangle. Like the write up on shotguns. I agree. Beautiful pictures. Time for me to visit my local gun store!


    “Independence is my happiness, and I view things as they are, without regard to place or person; my country is the world, and my religion is to do good.” Thomas Paine


  10. #10
    Moderator
    Array bmcgilvray's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    10,098
    You write really well, Tangle.

    "Somehow over the years, I lost my interest in the shotgun as a SD/SHTF weapon..."

    This is what has happened to me. I keep a suitable shotgun/barrel combination on hand but it stays in the safe in favor of carbines.
    Charter Member of the DC .41 LC Society

    “No possible rapidity of fire can atone for habitual carelessness of aim with the first shot.”

    Theodore Roosevelt, The Wilderness Hunter, 1893

  11. #11
    Ex Member Array Piratesailor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    206
    Excellent write up. Many thanks.

  12. #12
    Moderator
    Array RETSUPT99's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Central Florida
    Posts
    44,842
    Very enlightening, thanks for the post.
    The last Blood Moon Tetrad for this millennium starts in April 2014 and ends in September 2015...according to NASA.

    ***********************************
    Certified Glock Armorer
    NRA Life Member[/B]

  13. #13
    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Kentucky
    Posts
    8,957
    You are right Tangle. And even further out you can get multiple hits on multiple targets with one pull of the trigger.
    Guess that's why they call it a riot gun.

    A good shotty, and a good lever gun will suffice quite well.
    kerberos, pgrass101 and MamaMaria like this.
    Ignorance is a long way from stupid, but left unchecked, can get there real fast.

  14. #14
    OD*
    OD* is offline
    Moderator
    Array OD*'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Coopersville
    Posts
    11,283
    "The pistol, learn it well, carry it always ..." ~ Jeff Cooper

    "Terrorists: They hated you yesterday, they hate you today, and they will hate you tomorrow. End the cycle of hatred, don’t give them a tomorrow."

  15. #15
    Senior Moderator
    Array Tangle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Chattanooga
    Posts
    9,822
    First to all, thanks for the kind words!

    I'm going to try to address some of the thoughts and give some opinions, although they may be more 'I'm not sure' than answers.

    Quote Originally Posted by KBSR View Post
    Well done Sir. I've always been torn between my Benelli M3 battle shotgun, and my M4 Carbine for SD/SHTF scenarios. Glad I'm big and strong, and can carry both. LOL Since I can't make a decision between this or that, I always choose this AND that.

    Again, thanks.
    Boy do I ever understand being torn between...! I like the M3 - that just may be the best of both worlds. I have two Benelli Supernova Tacticals, one with the conventional stock, but a Comfortec and a non-Comfortec with a pistol grip. One time I like one and then the other. However, as it was mentioned in another thread, an AWB may settle the PG issue, we just don't know what if anything will happen in that area.

    Quote Originally Posted by lokin4deer View Post
    Thanks for the write up some info that I have been thinking on. One question......

    "Even more versatility - you can buy an 'entry' level shotgun cheaply and start learning to use it. As time, opportunity, and funds permit, you can add whatever gear/accessories you want until you have a custom shotgun uniquely yours."

    What gun would you recommend for this gun? Thanks!
    Almost a buyer's choice. The prominent ones that seem to have more options for accessories is several of the Mossberg models and Remington 870. However others have mentioned some less expensive shotguns they really like, so there's a lot to choose from. Although, if you have any intention of tacticalization (hmmm, I may have coined yet another new word - or maybe the same one twice) down the road, you will need to consider what's available before you buy.

    Quote Originally Posted by miller_man View Post
    Very nice Mr. Tangle, as is common with your in depth posts.

    I have thought a shotgun is a VERY good SHTF gun, especially if your going to be hunkering down and bugging in. Your going to be defending your home, not out in the woods needing to make 200 yard shots.
    Around here, out in the woods, means more like 50 yards - the trees get in the way

    Quote Originally Posted by miller_man View Post
    ...I already have a shotty (the cheaper maverick 88) with the 18" and 28" barrels, couple hundred rounds of birdshot and couple hundred rounds of defensive 00 buckshot. Up next on my priority list is the surefire light you have in the pics, then adding a second shotgun.
    Sounds like you've got it covered no matter what it is. Just a word though, and I can't speak from experience, but this makes sense to me, don't use birdshot for SD. As most contend, it can make a nasty wound but may not penetrate enough to effectively stop a threat.

    Quote Originally Posted by miller_man View Post
    ...I'm going to be changing the stocks out sometime soon, since it appears you have both, which do your prefer, pistol grip or the standard rifle stock? Think I lean towards a regular stock, just want it a little shorter LOP. Any preference? Advantages/Disadvantages??
    Well, I've struggled with that very thing. I really like both configurations - so much so that I have two Benelli Supernovas one with the Comfortec stock without the PG and a non-Comfortec with the pistol grip. There's one situation where I find an advantage to the PG - shooting one handed.

    Before I explain, let me explain (hmmm, before I explain, let me explain - I don't believe I know what that means ??) something else - why would be be shooting with one-hand in the first place? I suspect most would say because one hand/arm is wounded and that's a possibility. To tell you the truth though if I'm really down to one hand, I'm in deep, deep trouble with a pump shotgun. I know, it can be operated one-handed, but try it. Then try firing the same number of rounds with a semi. But I digress.

    A more likely reason one would be shooting one-handed is because you need the other hand to hold/control/steer/guide kids, spouses, older folks, a dog or whatever. It's unrealistic to assume we'll never have a hand tied up doing something important, like sweeping someone to a safer position. Now I can explain the first explain . Hmmm, what was that? Oh the PG advantage.

    A standard stock puts the wrist at a structural disadvantage. Younger and/or stronger guys probably won't even notice that, but it still happens. They're just so strong it doesn't matter. But I feel the difference in holding a shotgun in a shooting position with one hand with a PG. For me the PG is better from that aspect.

    I really wish I had a more compelling reason to choose between the standard and PG stock, but that's really about it. Although for me, the one handed shooting is quite significant and decisive.

    Quote Originally Posted by bmcgilvray View Post
    You write really well, Tangle.

    "Somehow over the years, I lost my interest in the shotgun as a SD/SHTF weapon..."

    This is what has happened to me. I keep a suitable shotgun/barrel combination on hand but it stays in the safe in favor of carbines.
    Take the shotgun and carbine out and shoot one shot from each at separate paper 'threats'. Shoot Federal Premium 9 pellet 00 buckshot, LE132 00 (or PD132 00, same ammo I think), that's a reduced recoil load - believe me you won't need any more than that. Or, some like #4 buckshot, either one will do. You can shoot whatever round you prefer in the carbine. Look at the threats - count the shots that hit the threats with one trigger pull. Notice how many sight pictures and trigger pulls you would need to duplicate the shotgun one-shot hits with the carbine. Of course a lot of damage is done internally by the carbine bullet that doesn't get reflected on the paper threat and the carbine does defeat body armor - that seems to becoming more significant. I believe they said the guy that shot up the movie had body armor on and the kid that murdered the school children and teachers had Kevlar on.

    Also, load up 3 - 5 rounds of some inexpensive #7-1/2 birdshot, like you might harvest small game with to eat during a prolonged SHTF situation, and shoot one of the threats in the head with all the rounds. Think of the big spread of #7-1/2 birdshot striking his face and eyes.
    I'm too young to be this old!
    Getting old isn't good for you!

Page 1 of 6 12345 ... LastLast

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Search tags for this page

benelli m2 for shtf

,
federal 132-1b for sale
,

federal le132 1b for sale

,
federal le132-1b
,

federal le132-1b for sale

,
le132 1b new article
,

le132-1b for sale

,

shotgun slug wound

,

shotgun slug wounds

,

tactical 870

,

tactical acuity course

,

xb121 in stock

Click on a term to search for related topics.