Trying to use an analogy on my liberal friends

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  1. #31
    Member Array Palumbo3284's Avatar
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    Trying to use an analogy on my liberal friends

    We all must be careful we don't over do this. If we convince the antis that assault weapon looking firearms are the same as other firearms that are not part of a ban, they will agree (thank you mr. "gun nut" for making me realize we need to make it bigger) and start banning them all ;)

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  3. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Palumbo3284 View Post
    We all must be careful we don't over do this. If we convince the antis that assault weapon looking firearms are the same as other firearms that are not part of a ban, they will agree (thank you mr. "gun nut" for making me realize we need to make it bigger) and start banning them all ;)
    So you're saying we shouldn't fight at all because we will just lose more by fighting? Am I reading you correctly?

    Because if I am that's one of the worst posts I've read all week.
    Mark Twain:
    The government is merely a servant -- merely a temporary servant; it cannot be its prerogative to determine what is right and what is wrong, and decide who is a
    patriot and who isn't. Its function is to obey orders, not originate them.

  4. #33
    Member Array Palumbo3284's Avatar
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    Trying to use an analogy on my liberal friends

    Quote Originally Posted by atctimmy View Post
    So you're saying we shouldn't fight at all because we will just lose more by fighting? Am I reading you correctly?

    Because if I am that's one of the worst posts I've read all week.
    Not saying that at all. We need to fight hard. All I'm simply saying is sometimes we push so hard to prove a point, we end up giving the opponent more ammunition.

  5. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Palumbo3284 View Post
    Not saying that at all. We need to fight hard. All I'm simply saying is sometimes we push so hard to prove a point, we end up giving the opponent more ammunition.
    OK, fight smart. I got you.
    Mark Twain:
    The government is merely a servant -- merely a temporary servant; it cannot be its prerogative to determine what is right and what is wrong, and decide who is a
    patriot and who isn't. Its function is to obey orders, not originate them.

  6. #35
    Distinguished Member Array Nmuskier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanuckQue View Post
    Now, I'll agree that the ability to own an AR-style weapon is a decent proxy for the freedoms we currently enjoy, and that our net freedoms are higher if we've that ability. But, I don't think that civilian weapons are any real defense against government oppression.
    edit: oh yeah, I completely agree that defense vs. gov't is the intent of the 2A. That's why I think that the 2A thematically includes IED supplies, grenade, rockets, etc.
    Yes, this is what I'm getting at.

  7. #36
    VIP Member Array Crowman's Avatar
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    It doesn't pay to get into the anti-gun people over the "evil assault" weapons or questions like why do you need one. Those type question do not and should not be addressed other than be cause the 2nd amendment allows it. period. That type rhetoric justifies their agenda of banning all weapons(guns)........ Maybe the best argument one can make is to reverse their rethoric of these "evil" weapons of today were not available and the founding fathers did not envision them. They actually did because they wrote that language so that the people(us) would be able to have the same basic arms as what the standing government military has. Since they obviously did envision America being around a long time they were not so naive to believe that arms(weapons) would not change.


    This message sent via my "Ma Bell" rotatory phone..........
    "One of the greatest delusions in the world is the hope that the evils in this world are to be cured by legislation."
    --Thomas B. Reed, American Attorney

    Second Amendment -- Established December 15, 1791 and slowly eroded ever since What happened to "..... shall not be infringed."

  8. #37
    VIP Member Array Sticks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bikemobile View Post
    Im a cop, a state cop. My agency has asked its officers to make a presence at local schools in my small town recently as a reactionary statement after the CT shooting. On friday morning, i parked in my marked car on the edge of the area where parents drop their kids in the morning for school. Make a presence, be in the area to discourage criminal activity. Some parents smiled and waved, some frowned and looked away. Having a cop at the elementary school has become a necessary evil. They dont want to accept the reality that something bad could happen in their sleepy little town. ...
    142k schools (public K-12 through higher ed) and maybe 5 actual mass shootings in the last 20 years, some of which happened during the last AWB. The school may have a gas leak and blow up as well (probably a better chance of that) but the fire dept is not parked out front.

    Following that logic, there should be a police officer on station at every single place that there might be more than 50 people gathered.

    The average US citizens attention span of a gnat, and inability to look at the big picture astounds me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Palumbo3284 View Post
    Not saying that at all. We need to fight hard. All I'm simply saying is sometimes we push so hard to prove a point, we end up giving the opponent more ammunition.
    This is true. There was a recent thread that linked to a blog post about the AWB and showed two pictures of a Mini 14. One fell under the last AWB, the other was completely legal. Same rifle, same capacity, same firing function. The last AWB focused on cosmetic features that did nothing to reduce the ability to kill in quantity.

    First responder on station time to the CT was around 20 minuets. Lanza could have done as much or more damage with a double barreled shotgun and his pockets full of loose 00 or 000 buckshot in that time - seeing 20 bodies killed with a rifle is one thing. 20 done in by a shotgun....that would be trauma for everyone who sees it.

    We do absolutely need to stand our ground, no compromise or reasonable restrictions. This is all going to boil down to how fast can one reload a weapon, and that will become academic as all an individual intent on this kind of evil is to carry multiple weapons. Fire till empty, drop, grab the next one.

    What then? 1 firearm per household is the max? That will get the hunters on board 100% against new legislation. Every firearm must be modified so that it takes a minimum of 3 minuets to reload? Now we are just getting stupid - right in line with the antis line of thinking.
    Sticks

    Grasseater // Grass~eat~er noun, often attributive \ˈgras-ē-tər\
    A person who is incapable of independent thought; a person who is herd animal-like in behavior; one who cannot distinguish between right and wrong; a foolish person.
    See also Sheep

  9. #38
    Senior Member Array CanuckQue's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zacii View Post
    If the AR has no influence on the existence of an oppressive government, then why are they so insistent to remove them from the population?
    I don't think one follows from the other, I honestly don't. I don't think that the presence or absence of the AR will have any effect on any other type of oppression. AR-15s don't affect eminent domain momentum or NIMBY momentum. The government will allow (or deny), say, mountaintop removal mining based on other consideration. The windmills will be put on our horizons for considerations other than assault-weapon ownership. Obamacare will be expanded or restricted for other considerations, too.

    The coalition of citizens who attempt to modify these decisions with AR-15s, grenades, or IEDs will be seen as nutbars. That's all my opinion, obviously.
    The oppression that we are fighting against has nothing to do with the issues before stated; rather it has everything to do with all of our eroding rights. We are resisting measures by our benevolent leaders to strip us of our rights of free speech, free religion, freedom to keep & bear arms, freedom of privacy, the right to due process, etc & etc.
    Yeah, that's why I think it's a proxy fight. It's like Larry Flynt's fight. Him fighting for the right to publish nasty satire and obnoxious porn delayed gov't infringement on other free-speech issues.
    Quote Originally Posted by nedrgr21 View Post
    But the vast majority of AR's and their use is for punching holes in paper. The times they are used to hurt innocent people are extremely rare and not a justifiable basis for eliminating them from access by law abiding citizens. There are much bigger fish to fry out there if anyone wants to really make a difference in the lives of children.
    Obviously, I agree. I think it's a decent argument, and it's (honestly) the argument that convinces me. The anti-gun opposition will try to negotiate around this point. "Oh, you just want to plink? Fair enough! But surely you can plink with 10-round magazines, no?"
    Our current plan for Universal Iron Lung coverage, just sayin'.
    Wisest. Retirement. Plan. Ever.
    Good thing the March of Dimes worked. How, why?

    Alternately, for those with a tool shed, ideas, or creative loved ones to tell..


  10. #39
    Distinguished Member Array noway2's Avatar
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    Ballistically speaking, the average rifle is a lot more powerful than the average handgun. In the eyes of the anti, the handgun is already awful in regards to its power to kill, which is what it was designed to do. They simply don't understand why anyone would need or want a weapon that "is designed to shoot all those bullets, very fast" (this is how my mother described an "assault rifle"). Why do people want semi auto rfiles? Aside from being familiar with them from military or law enforcement duty, and "cool" factor (e.g. same reason people choose cars), one reason is for the day, time, and place, where a handgun simply won't do. This reality scares the bejeezus out of the anti who is in complete denial that such a day could come and even if they realize it could they fail to understand why you would do anything other than peacefully do what your told.
    Sticks likes this.

  11. #40
    Member Array bubbatime's Avatar
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    Just do what I do... if they are liberal idiots, I delete them from my facebook and phone book and no longer associate or converse with them. Problem solved!!
    Lifetime NRA member

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    Look at hair. Long hair could mean a rock n roller OR our founding Fathers.

  13. #42
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    You can't fix stupid...
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  14. #43
    Member Array DickO's Avatar
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    The whole bunch of you make some outstanding arguments, pro, con, etc,... I've found this entire thread very enlightening and wish I could collect and present my thoughts as well as you folks have. Am glad to be a member (although newbie) on this forum.

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