Reflex or holo sights on a rifle?

This is a discussion on Reflex or holo sights on a rifle? within the Defensive Rifles & Shotgun Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; First: There seems to be some confusion as to whether a reflex sight is a holosight sight. Is the aim point projected on the optic ...

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Thread: Reflex or holo sights on a rifle?

  1. #1
    Member Array Bryan's Avatar
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    Reflex or holo sights on a rifle?

    First: There seems to be some confusion as to whether a reflex sight is a holosight sight.
    Is the aim point projected on the optic holo because it floats and has no post?
    Or is it "not" because you don't have 2 cross hairs to line up?

    Second: I am considering mounting one on an AK47. Does mounting it over the receiver (with a side mounted rail) have any advantages over mounting it far forward in the scout position?

    Third: Does mounting the sight higher then the iron sight adversely effect range and impact height?

    Fourth: There seems to be 3 main choices out there with many cheaper (knock offs?) replicas.
    Upon examining the name brand and the cheaper one I can find no difference.
    Are they all made in China or are the innards different?
    I want to get the cheapest one without compromising quality.

    Here are the pictures of the 3 I'm considering. From least expensive to most.
    Attached Images
    -Diplomacy: The art of saying nice dogie until you can find a rock.
    -The truth is a three edged sword.
    -Your brain is your primary weapon everything else is just a tool.
    -When the only tool you have is a hammer then everything starts to look like a nail.

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  3. #2
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    Array MattInFla's Avatar
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    I have an EoTech 512 on my AR, and really like it. Having it farther forward gives you a better field of view around the sight.

    The cheaper variants may work well, but I doubt they would be anywhere near as durable as the EoTech.

    The old adage holds - "Buy nice, or buy twice".

    Matt
    Battle Plan (n) - a list of things that aren't going to happen if you are attacked.
    Blame it on Sixto - now that is a viable plan.

  4. #3
    VIP Member Array Rob72's Avatar
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    Couple of other thoughts: Are you looking at the Ultimak mount, for your AK? Assuming so, and assuming that you'll be taking a "serious" class, and/or envision "serious" usage, I would get the most up-armored sight you can afford- or two mid-price range. Forward mounted optics tend to take more of a beating, as they naturally get stuck out, along with the barrel, versus receiver mounts, which we naturally keep closer to the core body and the instinctive "protective" envelope.

  5. #4
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    Array QKShooter's Avatar
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    No, a lighted or illuminated crosshair viewed on a "no magnification" or slightly magnified optical field is not the same as a true Holographic sighting system where the intended POI is optically projected out to the target.
    The EOTech is a true Holographic sight.

    Does mounting the sight higher then the iron sight adversely effect range and impact height? ~
    In a word: No.

    This would be the ideal location for the EOTech. Whatever gets you located right about there would be perfect.


  6. #5
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    Mounting the optical sight higher than the irons does create a sight offset, which has to me taken into account for precision work up close.

    At 7 yards, there is a ~2" difference in sight picture and POI.

    A good pictorial explanation can be found here: http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot18.htm

    Matt
    Battle Plan (n) - a list of things that aren't going to happen if you are attacked.
    Blame it on Sixto - now that is a viable plan.

  7. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob72 View Post
    Couple of other thoughts: Are you looking at the Ultimak mount, for your AK?

    Not meaning to hijack this but has anyone used a Ultimak on a M-1 carbine I saw were they make one and was thinking about getting one to update my carbine. I have never used a reflex sight and have no knowledge of them, you guys are giving me some great advice.

  8. #7
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    Many of your questions will be throughly answered on the EOTech web site. Click here to go there.
    Spend some time on that site and especially read some of the pdf articles. The SWAT Magazine article is particularly worthwhile.

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    Member Array JaredMcLaughlin's Avatar
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    If I had to do what you intend to do I would mount the EOtech low in the "scout" position. I can't see that going high or to the side as a "good" thing. Also, the EOTech model is made alot tougher than the other ones you are considering, and I've beat EOTech's to death. Might not be such a big deal on a range gun. I've noticed some suburban commando mall ninja types have an 'instant' mount for these that solves a problem I actually had, namely that the damn thing tends to wiggle loose over time. Once again, may not be an issue with a range only gun.

    All that said, I turned my EOtech in destroyed and requested to not have another issued. I think the benefit of the technology is deliterious to proper marksmanship, and requested the young gentlemen under my direction no longer use theirs either. They are however excellent on belt fed machine guns. Unfortunately the guts don't stand up to that sort of pounding.

  10. #9
    Member Array Bryan's Avatar
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    I'd love to have an EOtech but can't justify the $450 price (rifle cost $270). That's at least 4* more then the other 2 besides the ATN is almost an exact copy of the Cobra sight made for the AKM. I also found a gear guide version of the ant/cobra that is $50. Might be nice to play with but just might stick to iron sights. They make a nice peep sight and tritium front post also.
    -Diplomacy: The art of saying nice dogie until you can find a rock.
    -The truth is a three edged sword.
    -Your brain is your primary weapon everything else is just a tool.
    -When the only tool you have is a hammer then everything starts to look like a nail.

  11. #10
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    Not rifle oriented but - have to say at (IIRC sale price of $169) my Bushnell Holosight on my BFR is stellar! I'd love to have one for my AK.


    Chris - P95
    NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.

    "To own a gun and assume that you are armed
    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


    http://www.rkba-2a.com/ - a portal for 2A links, articles and some videos.

  12. #11
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    I believe the Bushnell Holosight is made by EoTech for Bushnell...it doesn't have the heavy-duty protective shroud that EoTech models have, but IIRC it is around $100 cheaper.
    "I surrounded 'em"- Alvin York

    "They're ain't many troubles that a man can't fix with seven hundred dollars and a thirty ought six"- Jeff Cooper

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    VIP Member Array ExSoldier's Avatar
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    There is a CRITICAL difference that has not been mentioned here so far: A holosight be it the Bushnell or the EOTech uses a battery whereas a "reflex" sight does NOT. Use a battery and count on it failing when Mr. Murphy shows up at the worst moment. I personally loved my MeproLight reflex when I had it on my Bushmaster M17S "Bullpup" and I regret selling it with the gun! I also like the ACOG for the same reason. Tritium for low light and light gathering intensification in daytime. I'm just not sure what magnification to go with on an AR or M1A platform. THAT of course is highly dependent on the role in which it will be employed. If CQB then obviously no magnification or at most 1.5X but if more of a distance optic then perhaps a 3X or a 4X. Decisions, decisions....
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

  14. #13
    VIP Member Array ExSoldier's Avatar
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    I would not mount any sort of optic on an AK or variant. That's 21st century technology on a dinosaur that was designed to go without such trappings. I mean no disrespect by calling it a dinosaur...it is rugged and utterly reliable, but it's not designed with optics in mind. It is a combat rifle designed to absorb abuse. The optic is NOT designed to absorb the kind of brutality of use that an AK might see. See?
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

  15. #14
    Distinguished Member Array AutoFan's Avatar
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    There's actually a red dot or reflex sight designed for the AK series by the Russians, I believe it is called a Cobra (or some spelling close to that) and has a mount specifically designed for it.

  16. #15
    Senior Member Array Daddy Warcrimes's Avatar
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    In regard to the second question:

    Mounting the sight above the reciever you may find the following disadvantages.
    1. Increased parallax effect. This may increase your shot group size
    2. The sight is closer to your eye so the reticle is larger in your field of vision

    Mounting the sight forward you might see the following.
    1. 2 reticles. A great advantage of the reflex sight is the ability to shoot with both eyes open. This requires that only one eye have line of sight with the reticle. The more forward the mounting, the greater the chance of seeing the reticle with the non-dominant eye.
    2. Since the reticle is further from the eye, it may be more dificult to see. You can compensate by increasing the reticle brightness but that has the problems of
    a. decreased battery life
    b. a brighter light that you might not want others to see.

    I found the best place for my reflex sight to be about 4 inches from my eye.

    I view the reflex sight as a suplement to and not a replacement of iron sights. They work best when they don't inturupt the traditional sights.
    "and suddenly I can not hold back my sword hand's anger"

    DaddyWarcrimes.com

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