A change in philosophy?

This is a discussion on A change in philosophy? within the Defensive Rifles & Shotgun Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; As you all know I have been thinking about possible tough times down the road and I wanted to run this by the DC brain ...

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    A change in philosophy?

    As you all know I have been thinking about possible tough times down the road and I wanted to run this by the DC brain trust. Also, DC is the only place that won't think I'm paranoid. : )

    I have been steadily buying stuff to prepare for long term financial upheaval in our country. i bought a farm for a sustainable food source and to get out of the city. I am working on ways to heat my home and to run the well with no electricity. But sadly, since the panic began, there is almost zero chance to buy a semi auto rifle at anything close to a fair price so stocking up just isn't possible on my budget.

    So I am thinking about changing my long term philosophy. I am thinking about buying affordable firearms still available at reasonable prices. I started thinking that 5 friends armed with a conventional rifle is better than one friend armed with a very overpriced semi auto.

    My idea is to buy one affordable bolt gun in either .223 or .308 each month. I'm leaning towards the Stevens 200 line. It will be pricey but if things go South I feel that they will 1) quadruple in value and 2) be a way to help true friends in need. Those friends would then be able to help me when I'm in need. Or they could be traded for food or other things my family might need.

    I already have a metric ton of .223 and I have a decent stock of .308 (but not as much as I'd like). I'll probably start picking up some more .308 when I can.

    It seems to me that for the price of one AR I can buy 5 Stevens 200 rifles. It seems silly not to. Your thoughts?

    http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/p...+17748+200+308

    http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/p...44+200+223+REM
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    Distinguished Member Array Exacto's Avatar
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    Semi-autos are still to be had at a good price, depending on what state you live in.
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    VIP Member Array Gene83's Avatar
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    My first thought would be to get some friends who already have their own guns rather than trying to equip a small army with your funds.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gene83 View Post
    My first thought would be to get some friends who already have their own guns rather than trying to equip a small army with your funds.
    I do have friends that own guns. The problem is that you're stuck with what you got when the SHTF. My gun toting family and friends may not be nearby or when they arrive they may have had to run and not be well stocked.

    To be clear, I'm not talking about buying a huge amount of guns. I'm talking about buying one Colt 6920 worth of guns. With my math that adds up to 5 or 6 affordable rifles. To my line of thinking more is better. As I said I could also trade them for food/services if I needed to. During HARD times a rifle would be worth a lot of diesel fuel for my tractor.
    Mark Twain:
    The government is merely a servant -- merely a temporary servant; it cannot be its prerogative to determine what is right and what is wrong, and decide who is a
    patriot and who isn't. Its function is to obey orders, not originate them.

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    VIP Member Array Gene83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by atctimmy View Post
    I do have friends that own guns. The problem is that your stuck with what you got when the SHTF. My gun toting family and friends may not be nearby or when they arrive they may have had to run and not be well stocked.

    To be clear, I'm not talking about buying a huge amount of guns. I'm talking about buying one Colt 6920 worth of guns. With my math that adds up to 5 or 6 affordable rifles. To my line of thinking more is better. As I said i could also trade them for food/services if I needed to. During HARD times a rifle would be worth a lot of diesel fuel for my tractor.
    I'm sorry. I misunderstood you.
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    VIP Member Array Snub44's Avatar
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    ...if considering material that has value for barter...take the same money (AR money) and buy that many Mosen-Nagent-type military rifles and ammo...in extremely hard times, they would be very desireable, and many more rifles and much more ammo could be had...so many more barter deals would result... a starting place for information/sources is Yesterdays Weapons Forum

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    Distinguished Member Array Hoganbeg's Avatar
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    I get the idea you are limiting the caliber to .308 or .223. For the same individual price you should be able to get a similar quantity of SKS type rifles. If you already have arms in that caliber It would seem to be a logical choice. OTOH, five advantageously positioned guys with limited-round magazines could pin down a small force if they knew what they were doing.

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    I think your philosophical shift is well-founded, and based in simple economics. One question I'll suggest is if you intend these guns to serve any sort of defensive role, or if you're investing in them as a bartering tool in the event of social collapse? The reason I ask is that for defensive uses, the bolt gun is about the slowest repeater out there. I know you have a supply of .223 and .308, but if you're buying a handful or rifles I'd include a lever action or a pump gun in the mix. The Brownings might bust the budget, but a Marlin 336 won't.
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    Ah, the bolt gun. You, sir, are a true believer. I love my bolt rifles above all other guns.

    I won't say I have no use for the 223. If I did, I would be given a public beating by my fellow forum members. So I will not say that.

    Now a 30 bore, on the other hand, is a bit more my speed. The 308 is a vey accurate round with mild recoil. What more could one ask? Bullets from 110 to 180 grains, not fussy, brass everywhere. An excellent cartridge. I do prefer my 30-06, and my 300 H&H even more, but a 308 has no real weakness.

    This will get me flamed forever, but I'd throw rocks at any semiautomatic rifle to get a good bolt gun. But that's just me. You are choosing.......wisely.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoganbeg View Post
    I get the idea you are limiting the caliber to .308 or .223. For the same individual price you should be able to get a similar quantity of SKS type rifles. If you already have arms in that caliber It would seem to be a logical choice. OTOH, five advantageously positioned guys with limited-round magazines could pin down a small force if they knew what they were doing.
    If I could find SKS rifles in bulk at a good price I'd scoop em up.

    Quote Originally Posted by gasmitty View Post
    I think your philosophical shift is well-founded, and based in simple economics. One question I'll suggest is if you intend these guns to serve any sort of defensive role, or if you're investing in them as a bartering tool in the event of social collapse? The reason I ask is that for defensive uses, the bolt gun is about the slowest repeater out there. I know you have a supply of .223 and .308, but if you're buying a handful or rifles I'd include a lever action or a pump gun in the mix. The Brownings might bust the budget, but a Marlin 336 won't.
    I understand where you are coming from. That's the reason I posted this, in order to hone my logic.

    My thought process is that in a real SHTF scenario a scoped .308 is a fierce weapon with real reach out and touch someone capability. I think the ability to hit someone before they are close enough to hit you is important. Sort of a stand off type capability.
    Mark Twain:
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    patriot and who isn't. Its function is to obey orders, not originate them.

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    VIP Member Array Snub44's Avatar
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    ...true, but your "issue" weapons or weapons that will be used for barter need not be so well equipped...a bare-bones military rifle is good to 200+ yards with a fair marksman...let THEM buy the scopes...
    Quote Originally Posted by atctimmy View Post
    If I could find SKS rifles in bulk at a good price I'd scoop em up.



    I understand where you are coming from. That's the reason I posted this, in order to hone my logic.

    My thought process is that in a real SHTF scenario a scoped .308 is a fierce weapon with real reach out and touch someone capability. I think the ability to hit someone before they are close enough to hit you is important. Sort of a stand off type capability.
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    With the proper hold over, you can hit with a .30-30 at quite a distance.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snub44 View Post
    ...true, but your "issue" weapons or weapons that will be used for barter need not be so well equipped...a bare-bones military rifle is good to 200+ yards with a fair marksman...let THEM buy the scopes...

    You do make a good point. Half a dozen Mosin–Nagant rifles would be excellent barter material.
    Mark Twain:
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    patriot and who isn't. Its function is to obey orders, not originate them.

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    VIP Member Array Eagleks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snub44 View Post
    ...if considering material that has value for barter...take the same money (AR money) and buy that many Mosen-Nagent-type military rifles and ammo...in extremely hard times, they would be very desireable, and many more rifles and much more ammo could be had...so many more barter deals would result... a starting place for information/sources is Yesterdays Weapons Forum

    Yep... I agree.
    The ammo on Mosen's is up right now among some places, but in others ... it can still be gotten for non-panic prices ($80-$95 for 440 rds + shipping). Some are selling Mosen's for a lot more ... but again, right places you can get them fairly cheap. I would get one of them even if he still bought the Savage as well.
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    Already mentioned above...I sold my AR-15 at a nice profit (4 years ago) and bought the Marlin 336SS in 30-30...saved a ton of cash in the process which bought me all the 30-30 ammo I needed. Lever actions can be your friend.
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