British SAS Looking for 5.56 NATO Replacement

British SAS Looking for 5.56 NATO Replacement

This is a discussion on British SAS Looking for 5.56 NATO Replacement within the Defensive Rifles & Shotgun Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Looks like at least some of the British military has had enough of the 5.56: In an SAS report, soldiers described the realities of the ...

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Thread: British SAS Looking for 5.56 NATO Replacement

  1. #1
    Member Array Naufragia's Avatar
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    British SAS Looking for 5.56 NATO Replacement

    Looks like at least some of the British military has had enough of the 5.56:

    In an SAS report, soldiers described the realities of the British “shoot-to-wound” policy, highlighting cases where, in clashes with the Taliban, enemy forces would rather fight to the death than extract themselves and their wounded from skirmishes.

    Furthermore, the report said that the soldiers were outgunned by the Taliban fighters, with their rifles commonly-chambered in 7.62x39mm and 7.62x54mmR, giving the insurgents an edge in stopping power and range.
    But not everyone is convinced:

    In defense of the 5.56 rifles, the British ministry of defense countered, stating “Troops in Afghanistan use a variety of highly effective weapons that fire a range of ammunition. They primarily use 5.56 mm rounds fired from the world-class SA80 A2 assault rifle and these have great power and accuracy.
    Not trying to start a dreaded caliber war, or anything. Just thought it was an interesting debate. (I also had no idea that the SA80 was "world class." )

    Story here


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    OD*
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    Wonder how many SAS members wish they still had their L1A1s?
    "The pistol, learn it well, carry it always ..." ~ Jeff Cooper

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    Quote Originally Posted by OD* View Post
    Wonder how many SAS members wish they still had their L1A1s?
    If the article is to be believed, more than a few.

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    Senior Member Array wdbailey's Avatar
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    "Shoot to wound policy"???

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    RKM
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    If they would use a quality OTM or SP, this wouldn't be a problem.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wdbailey View Post
    "Shoot to wound policy"???
    Yeah, that was new to me as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wdbailey View Post
    "Shoot to wound policy"???
    Well if you wound 'em enough times.....
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    VIP Member Array wmhawth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wdbailey View Post
    "Shoot to wound policy"???
    Quote Originally Posted by Naufragia View Post
    Yeah, that was new to me as well.
    The reasoning is probably the same as ours. A wounded soldier is a bigger inconvenience to your enemy than a dead soldier.
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    Quote Originally Posted by wmhawth View Post
    The reasoning is probably the same as ours. A wounded soldier is a bigger inconvenience to your enemy than a dead soldier.
    That has never been the policy of our military. The 5.56mm was not adopted to wound the enemy nor was it purposely designed for wounding.
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    VIP Member Array wmhawth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MilitaryArms View Post
    That has never been the policy of our military. The 5.56mm was not adopted to wound the enemy nor was it purposely designed for wounding.
    Not quite what I meant. When I served which was quite some time ago it was discussed in training as just a matter of fact, not a matter of policy. I expect the SAS policy, if it is in fact policy has that logic to it.
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    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
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    M1A cures all issues, short of bunkers.. Use enough gun/caliber and these discussions become obsolete.
    OldVet, gasmitty, VBVAGUY and 4 others like this.
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    Quote Originally Posted by wmhawth View Post
    The reasoning is probably the same as ours. A wounded soldier is a bigger inconvenience to your enemy than a dead soldier.
    To a civilized people, maybe.
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    Quote Originally Posted by wdbailey View Post
    "Shoot to wound policy"???
    Yeah "shoot to wound doctrine" was a major change when NATO adopted 5.56 as the common round. Idea, aside from logistical advantages was that wounded was more of liability than a KIA. KIA is just that, wounded has to be got off the battlefield and treated medically, using up additional resources and personnel. Additionally the idea was from a morale standpoint a lot of wounded could not be hidden like a lot of body bags.

    Snipers used a similar doctrine in never using a kill shot but wounding in order to draw more "prey" in as the wounded persons buddies try to get him out and treated medically.

    Sounds nasty but that's what war is all about.
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    Senior Member Array wdbailey's Avatar
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    My understanding of the transition to the 5.56 away from the 7.62 was that studies found that actual engagement ranges were much closer than previously imagined and that hit rates were lower than imagined. So give these parameters the idea became to equip troops with weapons that permitted then to put a lot more lead down range in a shorter amount of time while also giving them more ammunition to expend.

    Sort of like Stalin said, quantity has a quality all its own :P

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    Quote Originally Posted by MilitaryArms View Post
    That has never been the policy of our military. The 5.56mm was not adopted to wound the enemy nor was it purposely designed for wounding.
    That may be the case but I expect that it was considered and just like a lot of things that are "policy": public opinion is considered in all "public statements" about things such as this.

    I may draw a lot of flames for this but recently when you see an ad on TV soliciting for wounded vets ( I do contribute so I'm just using this as an example) you almost feel obligated to help because they are the ones that have made severe sacrifices. We see them almost everyday, dealing with the consequences of surviving their wounds. The only time we are reminded of our KIA is when it directly affects us or someone we know.
    wmhawth and msgt/ret like this.

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