Experience with ACOGs

This is a discussion on Experience with ACOGs within the Defensive Rifles & Shotgun Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Anybody out there have any experience with ACOGs? Military or otherwise. While in the Marines our A4s were mounted with ACOG RCOs and I loved ...

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Thread: Experience with ACOGs

  1. #1
    VIP Member Array pittypat21's Avatar
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    Experience with ACOGs

    Anybody out there have any experience with ACOGs? Military or otherwise. While in the Marines our A4s were mounted with ACOG RCOs and I loved it. Of course, because of my MOS, I didn't get a whole lot of two-way range time, so my experience is limited. I do remember that the ACOG was a sweet little optic, and I loved using it, but was hoping someone out there has some real-world experience with them. Anybody?

    And please, I don't need to hear anything about the price and how there's equally good products for a fraction of the cost, or anything like that. All I'm looking for is feedback from users with experience.

    Thanks
    "Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everyone you meet."
    -General James Mattis, USMC

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  3. #2
    VIP Member Array jonconsiglio's Avatar
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    I had the RCO for a number of years and beat the hell out of it. Absolutely bomb proof. My work rifle wears an Aimpoint, so I haven't used it in that role, but have used it through courses and it's been beat pretty good. It also saw two combat tours in someone else's hands.

    What do you want to know?

    I know this isn't what you want to hear, but just to throw my opinion out there.... If I was buying something similar today, I'd buy a variable powered 1-4 or 1-6 like the Leupold MK6 1-6 before another ACOG. Maybe even an Elcan Specter DR before an ACOG as well. But, that's just for my personal needs.

    It actually looks much worse than this pic. I didn't typically use the kill flash.

    pittypat21 likes this.
    Proven combat techniques may not be flashy and may require a bit more physical effort on the part of the shooter. Further, they may not win competition matches, but they will help ensure your survival in a shooting or gunfight on the street. ~Paul Howe

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    VIP Member Array pittypat21's Avatar
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    What are the pros and cons of it in your opinion? Other than price.
    "Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everyone you meet."
    -General James Mattis, USMC

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    VIP Member Array jonconsiglio's Avatar
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    I actually don't have any complaints about the price. I think it's worth what they sell for. They can usually be had a good bit off of MSRP as well.

    The pros for me is the fixed magnification being extremely robust. Being light weight, it's still me of the most bomb proof optics I've owned. I like the red chevron reticle and the Bindon aiming concept just works for me, but that took a bit of time.

    If I new for a fact I wouldn't be taking a shot under 50 meters or more with mot being in excess of 200, then it would be one of my first choices.

    The cons for me would be the fixed power since most of my shooting is done between a coule feet and 300 meters. The eye relief sucks at 1.5". I shoot pretty much nose to charging handle, but getting into unconvential positions can push me back a bit from the optic.

    The tritium is extremely underpowered when in low light, especially if shooting from a darker position like a vehicle into a slightly better lit area, like street lights.

    Not to pat my own back, but I'm one of the few I kow that can really rock an ACOG in CQB type settings, but it quickly falls short if there's not enough light available to illuminate the fibre optic.

    Variable powered 1-4 and 1-6 optics have gotten to a bomb proof point now and are much better than when I bought my ACOG. I can't think of any reason at all to choose an ACOG over an equally priced (or probably more expensive, unfortunately) variable. The Leupold mk6 1-6 is where it's at for me. It's 10 ounces lighter than the Vortex RAZOR but a bit more expensive. The S&B Short Dot LE is the perfect 1-4, but are EXPENSIVE!

    I had a Nightforce 1-4 and it rocked, but in very bright sunlight I'd loose the red dot even on ts brightest setting. The Vortex RAZOR 1-4 is a good optic in that ACOG price range, as is the Leupold Mk4 1-4, though it's not a true 1-4 like the S&B or Mk6, unless I'm mistaken.

    For me at this point, an Aimpoint and 3x covers everything I need out to 300 to 400 meters. There's been a number of times I've gone out hog hunting and removed the ACOG within a couple hours and went the rest of the weekend with the Aimpoint and the 3x in my bag. If I had a 1-4, I'd have no reason to take anything else though I'd still use the Aimpoint for work and home defense.
    40Bob likes this.
    Proven combat techniques may not be flashy and may require a bit more physical effort on the part of the shooter. Further, they may not win competition matches, but they will help ensure your survival in a shooting or gunfight on the street. ~Paul Howe

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    Member Array Eighthtee's Avatar
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    Used a ACOG TA31-CH at the Front Sight Rifle class. One of 3 out of fifty to DG the class. Not because I'm good but I had the best equipment. The ACOG is simply the best. Great eye relief, quick, accurate. I did cover the light source with black tape as in the bright desert sun it was a little too much. I don't plan on using a .223 at 400 yards so, from close to 200 plus this is awesome. In close, 7 to 15 yards you will need to aim a little high but that will be true of just about any optic.


    TA31-CH ACOG - Trijicon, Inc.

    This was expensive and ABSOLUTELY WORTH IT. Bite the bullet here, you will only be sorry if you don't do it. If you shop around you may be able to find it for 1200 or so. This is the most important thing that REALLY makes this rifle a survival tool, hunting tool, and it also massively increases the fun factor. Best money I have spent on just about anything.

    Eigthtee

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    VIP Member Array jonconsiglio's Avatar
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    I don't know man, that eye relief is terrible. I get double the eye relief from any variable 1-4 and from my Aimpoint 3x. I can handle it fine, but it is short usually no matter who you ask. Look at the Trijicon sight and almost every single ACOG besides the 4x32's have 3" or more of eye relief while they only have 1.5".

    I've run mine beyond 400 to 500 meters many times and love it. Get me in a shoot house and I am many times slower than with a red dot. Even more telling, I ran a shoot house once with a variable 1-4 and smoked it compared to the ACOG I have tens of thousands of rounds through over many years. It does have its faults.

    This may help you out. USMC03 of 03 Design Group is a SWAT officer and member of Lightfighter and m4carbine forums. He is all but obsessed with finding the perfect optic. Here's what he wrote about the different ACOGs and I'll quote his work experience when I find the post on the other site.

    http://www.03designgroup.com/technot...considerations

    Here's about the max eye relief I can get.



    Here's another pic for the heck of it...



    Here's the quote from the same guy as I linked above.
    Trijicon ACOG (TA01NSN, TA31, TA11....3.5x and 4x)

    An ACOG would not be my choice for using on a CQB mission. When I first got a TA31 ACOG I used it for matches and became fairly proficient with it at rifle matches (3 yards to 425 yards), and after a short learning curve I felt comfortable using it at CQB distances.

    I started using the TA31 at work and after my first couple SWAT missions, I quickly figured out that a 4x fixed optic was more of a liablity than an asset.

    A 4x optic is very slow and doesn't afford the shooter a good sight picture or the ability to identify threats at CQB distances (concentrates on too small of a target area).

    Often times when SWAT does an entry, both you and the bad guy are moving, it's dark, and you are using a white light, flash bangs are going off, you are trying to identify theats, dogs are so shitted they are either trying to get out of the house or trying to attack officers, there are people in the house that are not involved with the criminal activity (relatives or assoicates of the bad guy) etc, etc.



    Doing CQB drills with an optic on a square range is quite different from using that same optic while doing a real world entry on a house with real suspects inside that would like to do you harm.
    Proven combat techniques may not be flashy and may require a bit more physical effort on the part of the shooter. Further, they may not win competition matches, but they will help ensure your survival in a shooting or gunfight on the street. ~Paul Howe

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    VIP Member Array pittypat21's Avatar
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    I guess I'd have to check out the eye relief myself to really see how it is for me - since it's been several years since I used one.

    Thanks for all the input jonconsiglio. And sweet pics.
    "Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everyone you meet."
    -General James Mattis, USMC

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    VIP Member Array 40Bob's Avatar
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    What jon says sums it up perfectly for me as well. Great optic, but not the best all around.
    My rifle and pistol are tools, I am the weapon.

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    If you can afford it and you want it they are an outstanding tool.

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    I had one on my A4 in Iraq and Afghanistan.

    I agree with John on a lot of the pros and cons.

    I like that it doesn't run on batteries, that is one less thing to worry about. I think 4x is enough magnification to be useful, but low enough for closer in work. With practice you can use it at closer ranges, especially when you utilize the Bindon Aiming Concept. I like the BDC, it is simple and easy to use and understand. And it is tough as nails.

    Done, first the price is high. Pre-panic I could probably do a build, and put an Aim point PRO on it for the same cost. I like having a lower 1/3 co witness between iron sights any my optic, and actually like non-folding BUIS's on my rifles. Due to the short eye relief on the Trijicon, you probably aren't going to be able to run irons and the optic at the same time, which increases transition time between the two systems. The only real way we found the adjust the brightness of the reticle was by covering some of the fiber optic strip with tape. I like being able to change the brightness depending on the situation, in a more precise manner than that. 4x is workable close in, but not ideal.

    The next AR scope I buy is going to be some sort of illuminated reticle 1-4 X scope. After playing with an A cog for a few years, an aim point for a long time, and occasional eotech use, I think that seems like the most versatile platform.
    Fortes Fortuna Juvat

    Former, USMC 0311, OIF/OEF vet
    NRA Pistol/Rifle/Shotgun/Reloading Instructor, RSO, Ohio CHL Instructor

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    Quote Originally Posted by buckeye .45 View Post
    I like that it doesn't run on batteries, that is one less thing to worry about.
    Just to comment on this point... That's why I like my Aimpoint M4, it uses 1 AA battery, and the battery lasts seemingly forever. And I can control the red dot through about 10 levels, depending on ambient light conditions. (Having a 3X on a LaRue quick mount doesn't hurt either.)
    Rick

    EOD - Initial success or total failure

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    Distinguished Member Array Madcap_Magician's Avatar
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    I have less experience with the ACOG than most of the other posters so far- most of my optic experience is with the Aimpoint M68 CCO, which wins on eye relief but loses IMHO on most other points.

    My ideal setup would be the ACOG with both the RMR on top and XS Big Dot BUIS on 45-degree mounts.
    Hakkaa päälle!

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    Member Array CornstalkCop's Avatar
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    Aimpoint for within 200yds, and ACOG for further distances. I've found shooting at moving/running targets (Hogs) within 200yds with an ACOG is hell. I had a pack of hogs running directly at me within 75yds to 0yds while I was atop a canyon ridge and I couldn't acquire a sight picture. I tried my ACOG AR15 setup shooting from a moving vehicle (On private property) at running hogs and the FOV was too restricted. Switched to an M1A with iron sights and dropped them in much greater numbers. Same success with an Aimpoint mounted AR15. Flip side: The ACOG shines when you have targets at distance and they haven't detected you. The ballistic tree comes in very handy for distance shooting when you have calibrated your drops beforehand. At 400yds with the ACOG, and using the BDC I can put on target a 10-15 round group the size of a volleyball while firing a stable positioned rapid fire string.
    - You never need a gun until you need one very badly.

    - Running is for people who don't have ammo.

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    Senior Member Array munch520's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CornstalkCop View Post
    At 400yds with the ACOG, and using the BDC I can put on target a 10-15 round group the size of a volleyball while firing a stable positioned rapid fire string.
    This, in my opinion is the only arena where the ACOG really shines. Within 3-400 yards I am fine with an Aimpoint and 3x and prefer the combination for all the reasons mentioned above. But at 400 and beyond, the BDC comes in real handy. At that range, holdovers with a RDS are haphazard at best.

    That said, if I wanted something with reticle for holdovers, I'd be looking at a 1-4 or 1-6, not the ACOG.
    Monotony is the awful reward for the careful

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