Army Killed New Carbine

Army Killed New Carbine

This is a discussion on Army Killed New Carbine within the Defensive Rifles & Shotgun Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; The Army has half a million M4 carbines, the lightweight version of the Vietnam-vintage M16. So if the service was going to invest in a ...

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    Army Killed New Carbine

    The Army has half a million M4 carbines, the lightweight version of the Vietnam-vintage M16. So if the service was going to invest in a replacement, it wanted a “leap ahead” that would, among other things, cut in half the number of times the weapon jammed – a criterion the Army has not made clear until today. None of the eight designs offered for the Individual Carbine competition met that standard, Army officials said, so the service is going to stick with the M4 indefinitely.
    Army Killed New Carbine Because It Wasn?t Twice As Reliable As Current M4 « Breaking Defense
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    Classic example of the dog chasing its tail.

    The powers that be don't realize they already had something superior to the M4-M16.

    It was called the M14.
    Stupid government.
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    Good. They didn't need to spend an extra 2 billion. If they're so worried about malfunctions (average of 1700 rounds before a malfunction doesn't sound that bad to me) then maybe they just ought to spend more time on malfunction drills.
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    Quote Originally Posted by oneshot View Post
    Classic example of the dog chasing its tail.

    The powers that be don't realize they already had something superior to the M4-M16.

    It was called the M14.


    Stupid government.
    The m14 was not. It was to big to heavy and better suited for longer range fighting . I carried one. Good rifle but not for modern combat.
    Fail to feed ,fail to fire in these test is often due to weapon plain getting dirty, then the chance of a bad round comes in and lack of lube.
    Huldra tested a gas piston Ar with the dirty 5.56 X39 Russian round it went 4800+ round with no oil added before a fail to feed. They oil it chamber a round and right back to shooting.

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    The AR design is good, even with its nature of depositing carbon in the chamber/bolt area. I personally prefer the M14, but I can understand the logistics of the matter.

    But I do think we need a bigger caliber.
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    Quote Originally Posted by glockman10mm View Post
    The AR design is good, even with its nature of depositing carbon in the chamber/bolt area. I personally prefer the M14, but I can understand the logistics of the matter.

    But I do think we need a bigger caliber.
    Just replace all the barrels for the M16s and M4s already in use and start using 300 BLK
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    Maybe the Russians are smarter then we think. I would bet dollars to doughnuts that the average AK would go well past 1,600 rounds before a stoppage.....
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    I would think an Ak would run well over 5000-6000 before puking.
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    Quote Originally Posted by C hawk Glock View Post
    Maybe the Russians are smarter then we think. I would bet dollars to doughnuts that the average AK would go well past 1,600 rounds before a stoppage.....
    Ak is a bit over rated they have taken on a god like rep. They are not very accurate they have very short range and the weight of a boat anchor and you can not carry as much ammo.
    I had hoped they would settle on a gas piston M4 . I know I am sold on them . currently own 4 of them and do not see me ever buying a Di again.
    And the conversion is not big deal.
    When your carrying this stuff after awhile every pound counts
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    Guess we'll be stuck with the AR platform until they DO invent death rays...
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    Quote Originally Posted by oneshot View Post
    Classic example of the dog chasing its tail.

    The powers that be don't realize they already had something superior to the M4-M16.

    It was called the M14.
    Stupid government.

    Dumbest comment I've read on this forum. No offense.
    MJB_17, atctimmy and Fisher10 like this.

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    I have to agree with "oneshot", the M14 was one hell of a battle rifle, granted it was big and heavy but the simplicity of the gun and the power of the .308 round was great. Look at how many have been reintroduced into our current conflict. Best of both worlds would be the size and weight of the M4 with the .308 round, now that would neat. Only problem would be how many of todays troops would be able to withstand the recoil after being used to the recoil of the 5.56.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Popeye5782 View Post
    Dumbest comment I've read on this forum. No offense.
    I don't agree. Every unit in Afghanistan I worked with was very glad to have as many EBR's (enhanced battle rifle) and M240's as they could get.

    The EBR is just a gussied up M14. It's old, heavy, has fewer rounds, but it has range, accuracy, and a lethal round. I preferred my M4--much easier to carry--but it doesn't have the same effective range as the 7.62 NATO. The M14 was a nice rifle.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smitty901 View Post
    Ak is a bit over rated they have taken on a god like rep. They are not very accurate they have very short range and the weight of a boat anchor and you can not carry as much ammo.
    I had hoped they would settle on a gas piston M4 . I know I am sold on them . currently own 4 of them and do not see me ever buying a Di again.
    And the conversion is not big deal.
    When your carrying this stuff after awhile every pound counts
    I deployed to a particular location numerous times, and on the first trip there I found that we had nearly a whole conex full of 7.62 x 39. We also had numerous AKs so I took them out to the range all the time. I have shot thousands of rounds through AKs. I really tried to find something I liked about them and failed. I have been issued M-16s, CAR-15s, and M4s, own an M4-style Bushmaster and believe that if you know how to make them run, they work really well.

    AKs, and this is my opinion only, are garbage. Before any AK owners get too annoyed, I am biased because I absolutely hate AKs. I can't even estimate how many times I thought I'd seated a mag in an AK, only to work the bolt and find no round went into the chamber. Click. Work the bolt again and the mag falls on the ground. Pick the mag up. hit it against your leg to knock the dust off and it pukes 15 rounds out the top. All the mags do this. So we order up some new mags. Those do it too. Sometimes you do chamber a round and the mag still isn't seated. Bang. Mag falls out. Infuriating. Additionally they are very inaccurate. Yes they offer more precision than a Glock 19, but in the distances common in daytime gunfights in Afg, they are inaccurate enough to pose a significant disadvantage.

    Many units which have the ability are converting to the piston-style gas system in their new M4s. Some of those who must get their rifles through the regular supply chain are equipping with piston-style uppers. I never got a piston-style upper and I never had a stoppage with the M4 that I couldn't resolve by slapping the mag (then s--t-canning that mag). The secret WAS to freaking drown that sucker in lubricant. This sucked, because the weapon would literally be brown from all the dirt which stuck to it, but it would shoot. A couple years ago, our life support/armorer guy made everyone who arrived sit out in the sun and frog lube his weapons. That worked really well and I never had a stoppage again. So, drown it in lube or frog-lube an AR and they are very reliable.
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