A spin off from the MAC "take my safety thread"

This is a discussion on A spin off from the MAC "take my safety thread" within the Defensive Rifles & Shotgun Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; So thinking about my Glock with no manual safety and moving into the realm of the defensive rifle. I've been wondering if I should disable ...

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Thread: A spin off from the MAC "take my safety thread"

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    A spin off from the MAC "take my safety thread"

    So thinking about my Glock with no manual safety and moving into the realm of the defensive rifle. I've been wondering if I should disable (remove) the safety on my HD AR-15.

    My reasoning is that the gun sits in a locked steel cabinet and it never comes out unless there would be a reason to shoot it. Anything I can do to make it easier for my wife to employ it at 0330 would be a plus to me.

    Also as MAC stated it's one less way Mr. Murphy can get involved.

    For years I played top amateur/pro paintball and we always removed the safety to insure Mr. Murphy wouldn't get involved in a $15,000 moment and cause a failure. It was never a problem, but then again that was paintball. This would be real life...and real death if you were careless.

    Your thoughts, both pro and con.
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    VIP Member Array jonconsiglio's Avatar
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    As Pat McNamara says "the safety is always an enabled, never a disabler." The safety on an m4 is an absolute must. A semi experienced shooter will see zero change in time when using the selector.
    sammage and HotGuns like this.
    Proven combat techniques may not be flashy and may require a bit more physical effort on the part of the shooter. Further, they may not win competition matches, but they will help ensure your survival in a shooting or gunfight on the street. ~Paul Howe

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    I would not. But I have some experience with the platform as is, and a little familiarity with it.

    Let me ask you this timmy: Do you have a sling on the rifle? (If not, why not?) And would you be comfortable having it slung, trigger exposed, with no safety?
    WHEC724, Hoganbeg and pittypat21 like this.
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    Kind of comparing apples to oranges there. MAC is talking in the context of a defensively carried firearm retained in a quality holster; In this situation the trigger is completely untouchable.

    Leaving an AR sitting in a cabinet with a round chambered and the safety off just sounds like an accident waiting to happen. What if your wife hurriedly goes to grab the firearm and in her rush and pump of adrenaline she grabs the trigger? What if it's dark and in her panic she grabs the first thing that feels like a gun in the cabinet? Are there going to be other firearms in this cabinet, will the cabinet be lit on the inside? What if one of the other firearms shifts just enough from being placed at an odd angle that the sight or charging handle manages to snag the trigger?

    Buckeye also brings up a great point with the sling. I'm comfortable carrying my Glock all day with a round in the chamber (in quality holsters that is). Is there any chance that I'd hypothetically wear it on a sling with the trigger exposed? Hell no.

    Be safe out there guys.
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    I think the easy answer is to speak with your attorney. If there were an accident with that gun (safety removed), I'm pretty sure the State (criminally), or the plaintiff's (civilly), will have a field day with "a safety removed on purpose".
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonconsiglio View Post
    A semi experienced shooter will see zero change in time when using the selector.
    Quote Originally Posted by buckeye .45 View Post
    I would not. But I have some experience with the platform as is, and a little familiarity with it.

    Let me ask you this timmy: Do you have a sling on the rifle? (If not, why not?) And would you be comfortable having it slung, trigger exposed, with no safety?

    @ Jon and Buckey: I have no problem with the safety but the idea is for my wife who is not very familiar with the M4. I'd like to have her shoot it quite a bit more but she's not interested. She does shoot the pistol every now and then but she wants no part of the rifle. Until a BG is in the house then I'd guess she'll want it real bad.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mxfreak_24 View Post
    Leaving an AR sitting in a cabinet with a round chambered and the safety off just sounds like an accident waiting to happen. What if your wife hurriedly goes to grab the firearm and in her rush and pump of adrenaline she grabs the trigger? What if it's dark and in her panic she grabs the first thing that feels like a gun in the cabinet? Are there going to be other firearms in this cabinet, will the cabinet be lit on the inside? What if one of the other firearms shifts just enough from being placed at an odd angle that the sight or charging handle manages to snag the trigger?
    There is nothing in the cabinet but the M4. There is enough light to see but the cabinet itself is not lit.

    No sling. I haven't trained with one so I don't use one. That may change someday but for now it is what it is.
    Mark Twain:
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    VIP Member Array OutWestSystems's Avatar
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    If a person is gong to be handling a firearm in an emergency situation they need to have enough time at the range with it that they can engage it properly (safety, trigger, sights, etc) without worrying about forgetting something. If someone is not going to take the time to learn the firearm they shouldn't be reaching for it in an emergency. The first key to being successful in any emergency is to prepare, they same goes for using a firearm in one.

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    FWIW, I think it's a bad idea. Handguns ride in holsters that protect the trigger, rifles do not.

    I can think of dozens of ways to snag the trigger on a rifle while moving about, particularly in a panic situation.
    NONAME762 and ccw9mm like this.
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    Quote Originally Posted by WHEC724 View Post
    FWIW, I think it's a bad idea. Handguns ride in holsters that protect the trigger, rifles do not.

    I can think of dozens of ways to snag the trigger on a rifle while moving about, particularly in a panic situation.
    What WHEC said and +1. I wouldn't. No way Hosea!!!

    I expect you and your wife have far more experience with either an M4 or any AR variant than I. TBT it's been close to 40 years since I shot an M16 and I barely remember doing that. No, if I bought a brand new AR variant tomorrow I wouldn't fool around with any of the safety gizmos.

    JMHO YMMV
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    Senior Member Array munch520's Avatar
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    Terrible idea. The cure for the issue you face is more training, not removal of an essential part of the carbine.

    Like Jon said, the safety is an asset when used properly. If I pick up my SBR with the intention of using it immediately to prosecute a threat, it will go from condition 3 to condition 0. No working of the safety. It is easy to process square footage in your home with the gun at high ready, trigger finger straight, support thumb on the WML. If a threat is found, it will be ID'd with the WML, and I'll proceed from there. This is unsafe, however it is not dangerous. ie clearing a structure with a weapon is an inherently unsafe activity.

    Keep in mind, if you were using your Glock and not a carbine, you would do it in this exact same fashion. No safety to work, just finger straight with the pistol at high ready.

    Men like Paul Howe and Pat McNamara are on the safety all the time, and with the amount they shoot this obviously works for them. However, for someone less experienced it is easy to forget that the safety is engaged. I think the use of the safety is very important, but tailored to one's skill set.

    As a sidebar, it can be very easy to develop a 'training scar' with the AR if you're used to drilling on a square range. I see guys all the time shoot a sequence, immediately engage the safety, and do a quick little 'scan'. That's stupid, what if the target you shot gets back up? What if another threat appears? Guarantee that 99% of the guys out there would snap the rifle up, and squeeze that trigger til they broke it...all the while forgetting the safety was engaged.

    I would work with your wife on the following
    -from low ready, acquire target, finger straight, the second it takes to move your trigger finger to the trigger is typically enough to ID the target
    -process the target (FTS, NSR, whatever drill you want)
    -immediately following the drill, HOLD the sights on target for at least a few seconds. You can even envision that you've shot the target to the ground, so follow the target down
    -lower the weapon to a high ready, so you can look over the sights, not through them
    -scan area (don't scan quickly, this is worthless and another training scar. scan slowly, taking in new details regarding your surroundings)
    -now engage the safety
    ccw9mm likes this.
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    VIP Member Array jonconsiglio's Avatar
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    No matter the reason, I cannot get on board with removing the selector from an AR. If this was an M&P handgun, sure. But it's not. The AR is a different animal. 10 minutes of dry practice a day for a week will get her very comfortable.

    Low ready, being the rifle up, switch to fire and pull the trigger. Reset the trigger, safety on then back to a low ready after the necessary scanning. Over and over. Unless you are willing to pull the trigger, that safety should be on.

    EDIT - I completely missed Matt's post above mine.
    pittypat21 likes this.
    Proven combat techniques may not be flashy and may require a bit more physical effort on the part of the shooter. Further, they may not win competition matches, but they will help ensure your survival in a shooting or gunfight on the street. ~Paul Howe

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    Senior Member Array munch520's Avatar
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    This is subject to change (as usual) but currently, If I have the gun shouldered, the safety is off. Whether at low ready, high ready, or during a tac reload. The exception to this is movement, safety gets engaged for that but is immediately disengaged if I'm static.

    If the gun is slung (I still have a hand on it to maintain control) but I don't feel this is positive control, so the safety is on. If conducting an emergency reload I see no reason to engage the safety, the gun is empty.
    Monotony is the awful reward for the careful

    How can man die better than facing fearful odds, for the ashes of his fathers and the temples of his Gods?

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    VIP Member Array jonconsiglio's Avatar
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    Everyone is different on that. McNamara uses the selector between reloads, others don't until the sling the rifle or start movement. I'm kind of in between.
    Proven combat techniques may not be flashy and may require a bit more physical effort on the part of the shooter. Further, they may not win competition matches, but they will help ensure your survival in a shooting or gunfight on the street. ~Paul Howe

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    Senior Member Array munch520's Avatar
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    Right - you've gotta adapt it to work for you, OP.
    Monotony is the awful reward for the careful

    How can man die better than facing fearful odds, for the ashes of his fathers and the temples of his Gods?

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    Distinguished Member Array Once's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by munch520 View Post
    This is subject to change (as usual) but currently, If I have the gun shouldered, the safety is off. Whether at low ready, high ready, or during a tac reload. The exception to this is movement, safety gets engaged for that but is immediately disengaged if I'm static.

    If the gun is slung (I still have a hand on it to maintain control) but I don't feel this is positive control, so the safety is on. If conducting an emergency reload I see no reason to engage the safety, the gun is empty.
    Winner Winner chicken dinner.
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