Shopping for a CQB/Home Defense EBR

Shopping for a CQB/Home Defense EBR

This is a discussion on Shopping for a CQB/Home Defense EBR within the Defensive Rifles & Shotgun Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Well, I am finally at the point where I'm (mostly) satisfied with my stable of CCW sidearms. The next gun I plan to purchase will ...

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Thread: Shopping for a CQB/Home Defense EBR

  1. #1
    VIP Member Array Phaedrus's Avatar
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    Shopping for a CQB/Home Defense EBR

    Well, I am finally at the point where I'm (mostly) satisfied with my stable of CCW sidearms. The next gun I plan to purchase will be an EBR (Evil Black Rifle). The prices are nearly back down to pre-SH levels and 5.56 ammo is once again plentiful. My firearms for home defense right now are primarily an HK USP45 Tactical equipped with a Surefire X300 Ultra kept by my bed and a Remington 870 Express Tactical leaning in the corner by the bed. While I'm pretty comfortable with a .45 pistol and/or a 12 ga loaded with seven rounds of buckshot, I think a rifle in 5.56 has some advantages over both of those options.

    I can say for starters that I want some variant of an M4. Years ago I had a Mini-14 and never really liked it.

    I can also say I'm leaning towards a well equipped gun vs buying a basic one and adding stuff. My requirements are pretty simple; I want reliability and the ability to mount a flashlight. Quad rails is what I'm leaning towards but it's not strictly necessary. I'm not really set on the whole piston vs DI issue, either. On that count I'm agnostic. Either would work for me. While I probably would use the gun at longer ranges occasionally for fun, I plan to set it up for distances ranging from bad breath range out to maybe 50 feet. The primary mission of the gun will be QCB/home defense.

    So a few questions for the AR guys here- which guns fill the bill best? Do I want a carbine gas system on a DI to keep the gun short and maneuverable or do I need to accept more weight to get a gun that's more reliable? Do short gas systems run less reliably in the first place? The primary requirement is that the gun must go BANG! every time, every other consideration is secondary. That said, once I that sorted out I want something easy to run in close spaces with a minimum of bulk. I do consider a WML mandatory, so it should have rails or at least a small section of 1913 to mount the light. To begin with this will probably be the Surefire X300 Ultra that currently sits on my HK. Down the road I may find something I like better.

    When I was growing up my dad had an FFL and sold guns through his sports club. I got my first rifle shortly after I could walk and dress myself, and over the decades I've done a lot of hunting and shooting, including a lot of prairie dog shooting and metallic silhouttes (high power, mostly, but some .22). So you could say I'm very familiar with shooting rifles. But I'm no "operator", and certainly not "high speed low drag." I plan to get some formal training but for now I'll be just practicing at the range.

    The first guns I've considered are the carbine length guns from Daniel Defense and BCM. No DPMS or Rock River for me...I want something a little better than that. And I'd rather buy a gun that was mostly ready to rock out of the box without having to swap out a bunch of "go fast" parts.

    I'd appreciate any input you AR folks have on a suitable weapon, and maybe advice on what ammo would be best for HD.
    "When Fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis

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  2. #2
    Distinguished Member Array SCXDm9's Avatar
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    Palmetto State Armory keeps about the best prices I could fine and they are getting back to pre SH stock level quickly.

    JUST MY OPINION - do what you want but I personally do not find an AR to be a very useful weapon for inside the home defense. Main reason, unless you live in a house made of block, a 5.56 round is going to leave your house and go somewhere you don't want it to.

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  3. #3
    VIP Member Array Jaeger's Avatar
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    Honestly, any AR you buy will be more firepower in your hands than just about anything else. ARs are Barbies for boys. There is literally no limit to the variations and options. There is absolutely nothing wrong with it set up as a classic M-16, and those are the lest expensive ones. They're pretty light too.

    I like Rock River Arms, and they offer so many variations and styles you won't have to build it yourself. I think their quality is very high.

    Rock River Arms: Custom Firearms, Parts, Accessories

    If money is no object...

    Wilson Combat | World Class Custom Firearms and Accessories

    If it's for home defense you may want to look at paying the $200 and getting an SBR upper. It isn't my thing, but they are so short and light they swing very fast, and if it's for close up you may want to look at .300 BLK instead of 5.56, which hits a lot harder. If you're going SBR then why not turn in the paperwork for a suppressor too? They'll take the noise down to the point where you can fire indoors without risking tinnitus. All the options cost though, and as I said any you choose will just about be the most rounds and most power you could ever need.

    You're looking at $700 for a classic M-16 style, up to $4K or $5K for a loked out .300 SBR.

    Go over and join: AR15.Com - Your Firearm Resource. (AR-15, AR-10, M4 Carbine, M16, H&K, SIG, FNH, FAL, AK-47, 50 Cal, M1/M1A, Handgun, Pistol, Training, Hunting, and More!) , and make the same post. They'll tell you better than me, because they're in love with this stuff.

    I have a passing interest in "assault" rifles. I had a pre-ban Bushmaster (great rifles as well) and a MAK-90 these are the only rifles I've ever sold, because I wasn't shooting them and didn't think I needed them because I was hunting so much. Big mistake. I paid $180 for the MAK-90, and now they're going for $900, and the Bushmaster also appreciated significantly. I won't make the mistake of selling a firearm again. I should have listened to my father, "Son, never sell a firearm or a piece of land". Recently I got this in trade for services.





    I sort of went the other way. It's a Rhino Arms Rhino Arms | Holy Second Amendment (made right here in St. Louis) in 5.56 with a true, .5 MOA, Match Grade Barrel from Barrette, and I put a Trijicon 3.5 combat optic on it. It isn't a varminter per se, but it's definitely got the goods at range. This is probably the only AR I'll have so I wanted something that could do close range passably (it's heavy and doesn't swing very well), and could still fire very accurately at distance. The Trijicon was the compromise component, as there is no reason you couldn't put a monster Night Force on this and put rounds on target beyond 500 yds, but then your simply out at close ranges. One of these in .308 is pretty amazing, but $$$ to shoot.

    Hopefully you put together something you're happy with, because I know quite a few dudes who get one for a special purpose, like close quarters, and then feel they need another for range, and then want a .308, and then a .300 BLk, and on and on it goes till your safe is filled with evil in black metal...seeming into your brain...breaking down your humanity...driving away your family and friends...dulling your reason,...and turning you into a cold blooded killer. Don't let it happen to you!
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  4. #4
    CJM
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    Quote Originally Posted by SCXDm9 View Post
    Palmetto State Armory keeps about the best prices I could fine and they are getting back to pre SH stock level quickly.

    JUST MY OPINION - do what you want but I personally do not find an AR to be a very useful weapon for inside the home defense. Main reason, unless you live in a house made of block, a 5.56 round is going to leave your house and go somewhere you don't want it to.

    Sent from my DROID4 using Tapatalk 2
    Yep, that is in fact, just your OPINION and not factual. You really, really should do some research before you post such things.

    Here is some information on the matter.

    Real World .223 testing
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    Member Array ZacMan1987's Avatar
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    Depending on how much you want to spend and how long you want to wait, an SBR would be an excellent choice. An AR pistol might also be an excellent choice.

    Focus less on one brand or another and more on what makes a great rifle, although the things that make a great rifle are going to be most easily found in brands like Daniel Defense, Colt, BCM, LMT, LWRC, KAC, and Noveseke.

    DI vs Piston is not going to make a huge difference in terms of what you are talking about. I would KISS and go DI. My current build is going to be DI.

    I know you'll want some go-fast goodies on it, but try to keep the front of the rifle as uncluttered as possible. Nothing slows a rifle down like crap hanging off of it everywhere.

    Have you thought about optics? For what you want to do with it, I would buy an aimpoint. RDS means no parallax, super-fast target acquisition, and 2 MOA accuracy. If you can see the dot and put it on target, the bullet will hit there. Aimpoints also have legendary battery life. You can literally turn it on, put it wherever you plan on leaving it, and change the batteries every new year's eve and never worry about the sight not being Good to go.

    If you think you're going to clear your home with this weapon or any other, then go spend lots of money learning how to use it. Otherwise, I'd plan on forting up with your 870.

    Personally, if I were building a rifle for your intended purposes, I'd consider a pencil barrel. It will lose accuracy with sustained fire and heating, but for CQB, you can't beat the lightness.

    I would spend at least 3-4 months reading everything you can before you buy. Otherwise, you'll end up missing something that you find out later that you really wanted.

    pencil barrels - AR15.COM
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  6. #6
    CJM
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    Phaedrus, if a SBR isn't feasible or legal, my preference is a direct impingement gun with a mid length gas system and 16" barrel. I built mine, and it will run like a scalded cat with everything I've fed it, from Wolf and Tula .223 to more expensive defensive ammo.

    The Colt 6920 is tough to beat. S&W also has some real nice rifles and a bunch of option. Palmetto State Armory has good deals on rifles too once in a while. Daniel Defense and Bravo Company are a little more pricey but well worth it if a guy can swing it.
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    DI vs piston, is as conterversial as the great caliber debate. both work.
    as for ammo, stick with soft point .223 for HD, as it has a greater chance of tumbling and breaking apart if it misses your target, lessen the risk of killing or maiming the neighbors dog, the 5.56 ball ammo "could" penetrate and continue on potentially harming cujo.
    makes and models of the AR platform are as numerous as there are stars in the sky, but as to specific brands? i never gave it much thought, as i follow the school of thought as your rifle is only as good as you are.
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    Senior Member Array IAm_Not_Lost's Avatar
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    You can buy a BCM 16" middy for $459, plus BCM BCG for about $189, plus PSA complete lower for $200. Pick up a charging handle and some hand guards for about $50 bucks and your done. I literally just did that on a recent build. Will show picks in another thread.
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    Distinguished Member Array SCXDm9's Avatar
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    Read what ever you like. I have fired a 5.56 round into and out the other end of a piece of firewood 12" thick. Maybe I'm amazing, maybe it was a once in a life time thing. I've never seen a pistol round to that.

    THAT IS MY FACT... feel free to post your opinions as well.


    Quote Originally Posted by CJM View Post
    Yep, that is in fact, just your OPINION and not factual. You really, really should do some research before you post such things.

    Here is some information on the matter.

    Real World .223 testing

  10. #10
    VIP Member Array Kilowatt3's Avatar
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    Short answer:

    You'd be hard-pressed to get more bang-for-the-buck than a Colt 6920 w/Magpul furniture for under $1200 at Wally-World (if you can find one). They were out of stock for months around here, but are rapidly coming back.
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    @ OP: There are a lot of people here who spout uneducated opinions. So I'll spout mine. I have, for my HD gun, what I think is the best combination of short and sweet without paying the $200 tax stamp. I have a BCM 14.5 inch DI AR with a pinned and welded A2X flash hider. Since the flash hider is permanently affixed I don't need the tax stamp. It makes the gun 1.5 inches shorter than your 16" variety and it shoots like a dream.

    No matter what you decide just make sure you do your homework. There are lots of good companies out there that make a great product that are priced in the same ball park as the pretenders. I like BCM, but you can't go wrong with a Colt,DD,Centurion,LMT, Noveske and maybe a few others.

    PSA also makes a decent product and if you wait for a sale they are by far the best bang for your buck around. they aren't the very best rifles but they are pretty good and if money is a concern I'd lookk at PSA.

    PSA 16" M4 Premium Patrol Carbine Package


    IMO this is the best AR deal on the planet. It comes with everything you need including a $400 Aimpoint optic.
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    VIP Member Array Jaeger's Avatar
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    That IS a good deal!

    I see a ton of ARs on Armslist, and if you're using it for HD, and aren't particular about the accuracy at range this isn't a bad place to snipe once you've figured out what you want.
    “Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive." C.S. Lewis

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    VIP Member Array Kilowatt3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by atctimmy View Post
    ...PSA also makes a decent product and if you wait for a sale they are by far the best bang for your buck around. they aren't the very best rifles but they are pretty good and if money is a concern I'd lookk at PSA.

    PSA 16" M4 Premium Patrol Carbine Package

    IMO this is the best AR deal on the planet. It comes with everything you need including a $400 Aimpoint optic.
    That really does look like a heckuva good deal! If I were in the market for an AR, I believe I'd jump on it. MIGHT drop the extra couple hundred to get the Magpul Colt, but it'd be a close call!
    Regards,
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    VIP Member Array 10thmtn's Avatar
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    IF a 5.56 bullet tumbles and fragments, it will usually penetrate less than a pistol bullet or a shotgun pellet. If it does NOT tumble and fragment...look out. When it comes to bullets there are no guarantees, so the usual safety rules apply.
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    I have a Daniel Defense DDM4V7 lightweight barrel. an extremely well made rifle. Their customer service is top notch also.

    That being said, maneuvering a rifle inside is difficult to do well, I still believe a handgun is preferable for in the house self defense for that reason, not because of penetration issues.
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