Defensive Rifle Choice in 1993

Defensive Rifle Choice in 1993

This is a discussion on Defensive Rifle Choice in 1993 within the Defensive Rifles & Shotgun Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; My Home Defense Rifle I originally chose my personal defensive rifle on a few factors 1st that it had an effective mid range cartridge that ...

Results 1 to 14 of 14
Like Tree18Likes
  • 8 Post By pgrass101
  • 2 Post By pgrass101
  • 5 Post By bmcgilvray
  • 1 Post By grouse
  • 1 Post By 5lima30ret
  • 1 Post By IronicOutlook

Thread: Defensive Rifle Choice in 1993

  1. #1
    Senior Moderator
    Array pgrass101's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Alabama
    Posts
    13,501

    Defensive Rifle Choice in 1993

    My Home Defense Rifle

    I originally chose my personal defensive rifle on a few factors
    1st that it had an effective mid range cartridge that was readily available, I was not looking for a battle rifle but a defense firearm
    2nd that it was handy and light weight, that I could/would carry it and maneuver around with it in a house or vehicle
    3rd that it was accurate and capable of laying down a high rate of fire
    4th that is had a proven track record of reliability
    And finally that I could afford one.

    In 1993 this list was just in the back of my mind but it had no more flesh on it than what appears before. I settled on the M1-Carbine. At the time you could buy a carbine in very Good condition for around $300 and an AR would be closer to $1000. AKs were getting close to $1,000 as the buying frenzy before the AWB was getting heated up.

    At the time, magazines and ammo for the carbine could be found in abundance and they did not meet the criteria to be banned under the AWB. I have found the little carbine to be one of the most natural pointing rifles that I have shot and this with its low recoil makes it easy to train new shooters on. Its light weight and small size makes it a breeze to carry (which mainly means that it will be carried) and very handy in tight environments.

    It is worth remembering that the little carbine was designed as a Personal Defense Weapon and it still excels at this. The .30 caliber round while not a rifle round it is no slouch and I feel comfortable with it out to 200 yds, and the little M1 carbine definitely gives you a feeling of security (maybe more than the little round should) as you tote it around.

    Since I started in 1993, I have been working on equipping my whole family with the Carbine to use as our main defensive long gun. Now the .30 carbine round is not as cheap or plentiful as it was 20 years ago and you can by a decent AR for the same price as a decent M1 Carbine.

    I still think that the little carbine is a very viable choice in 2013, especially since it isn't evil and black and a collectable piece of history.
    You can sway a thousand men by appealing to their prejudices quicker than you can convince one man by logic.

    ― Robert A. Heinlein,


  2. #2
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    27,083
    IMO, the M1 Carbine is still one of the best SD rifles. Compact, light, easy to use, quality cartridge, 10-200yd effective range, amazingly accurate (for me). Hard not to like them.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  3. #3
    VIP Member
    Array OldVet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    S. Florida, north of the Miami mess, south of the Mouse trap
    Posts
    16,641
    A decent used M1 runs $800-900 at my LGSs, and at that price, I'd consider upgrading to an AR, even though I'd prefer the M1. I wish I had picked one up long ago.
    Retired USAF E-8. Lighten up and enjoy life because:
    Paranoia strikes deep, into your heart it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... "For What It's Worth" Buffalo Springfield

  4. #4
    Senior Moderator
    Array pgrass101's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Alabama
    Posts
    13,501
    Attachment 79740
    Quote Originally Posted by OldVet View Post
    A decent used M1 runs $800-900 at my LGSs, and at that price, I'd consider upgrading to an AR, even though I'd prefer the M1. I wish I had picked one up long ago.
    If I were starting fresh I would definitely consider and AR but seeing how I already have 3 M1 Carbines with mags, parts, ammo and reloading dies I'm sticking with the M1 Carbine.

    If you have a C&R License you can knock $100-$200 off of the price of one.
    You can sway a thousand men by appealing to their prejudices quicker than you can convince one man by logic.

    ― Robert A. Heinlein,

  5. #5
    VIP Member Array WrongRecroom's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    AZ moutain lands
    Posts
    4,214
    Yeah I like the pistol cal stuff for HD less over penetration and still a lot of stopping power . I know the camp 9 get the bullet up there close to 357 mag so ouch.

    But yeah love the little m-1, but hate the cost of ammo now( nice to see they are still making it and even HD rounds now) , ditto on the 7.62x25 round . It is funny how guns come and go with the time and laws . I know I like the marlin camp rifles and the pc4/pc40 for the fact that they have nothing evil ( till you slap a 30 round mag in..).

    I am afraid till I get the money I will have to hold off buying a lot of guns I like due to ammo cost ( learn that the hard way with the 5.7 round when it first came out).

    Also I hate seeing the 600-800 wsar now , ditto the chincom aks boy thous have gone up.

  6. #6
    Moderator
    Array bmcgilvray's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    10,098

    I'm a very enthusiastic M1 Carbine user! An M1 Carbine is a must for every serious collection in my view. I enjoy the AR 15 as a neat toy and as a component of the U.S military and U. S. military-style collection but the M1 Carbine is taken seriously around here. It's the one that's available for household defense rather than the AR 15. It sees most carry use in the pickup when making trips afield.

    I think the M1 Carbine is more manageable in the house, in halls and stairwells, than the Colt SP-1 kept here and I'm uninterested in a shorty AR 15 or "M-4gery" type rifle. The M1 Carbine offers a more natural "point-ability" in my hands than any other rifle. Though it's wildly popular these days, I'm not really a true believer in the AR 15 or its .223 round. I'm perfectly happy with the .30 Carbine round out to 100 yards or so. It's even "stretch-able" to 200 yards with accuracy and reasonable punch. I shoot mine to that distance regularly. The .30 Carbine round with a soft point bullet is a rough customer, giving impressive terminal ballistics. I've both used it and seen it used quite a bit.

    My wife likes the M1 Carbine as well and can do good work with it. She's really even more keen about having it available than I am and considers it her go-to rifle.

    I've owned and played with an AR 15 since the late 1980s but have shot M1 Carbines all my life.

    Link to an ancient .30 Carbine discussion I posted here 6 years ago this month.
    .30 Carbine


    The stock on this Underwood Carbine is mostly worn slick by all the handling its had since it came to live here.
    Charter Member of the DC .41 LC Society

    No possible rapidity of fire can atone for habitual carelessness of aim with the first shot.

    Theodore Roosevelt, The Wilderness Hunter, 1893

  7. #7
    Distinguished Member Array grouse's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    kansas
    Posts
    1,919
    Hard to beat a M1 carbine!
    My Dad told the story of his platoon holding a an Italian mountain top in WWII where a single carbine carried the day.

    Seems Dads platoon was fighting off a determined German attack, outnumbered but holding the high ground they fought the advancing foe to a retreat. Thinking it would be at least a little while before the "jerrys" resumed there onslaught the GI's took a moment to themselfs a short mental pause.

    The Germans, the same troops pushed out of North Africa by Monte & Bradley had not really retreated but rather had moved down the mountain just far enough to be out of the line of sight, then sideways and back up the mountain to the Amecican platoons exsposed left flank.
    One man the radio operator was all alone in "safe spot" when he looked up and a sea of blue uniforms creeping right for him!

    Dad decribed the radio man as a young man from rural Georgia that had been a "squirrel hunter" back home helping as he could feed his family.

    He was alone, cut off from his platoon and facing a well trained German force.

    But he was from Georgia and he had a M1 carbine.

    Dad said "all the sudden from the left flank they heard pop pop pop pop over & over again" you could hear the carbine bullets hitting flesh he said. The platoon turned and charged to the sound of the little carbine but by the time they arrived the Germans had again retreated down the mountain and they wouldent be back.

    The radio man haden't a scrath" just a bit shook up" Dad said.

    Dad told me "we found blood & Jerry helments everywhere....but not one dead Jerry"!

    Sounded like the little carbine worked as it's designers had intended.

    I know I will always keep mine.
    bmcgilvray likes this.

  8. #8
    Moderator
    Array bmcgilvray's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    10,098
    Fabulous tale! Love obscure war stories like that snippet!
    Charter Member of the DC .41 LC Society

    No possible rapidity of fire can atone for habitual carelessness of aim with the first shot.

    Theodore Roosevelt, The Wilderness Hunter, 1893

  9. #9
    Distinguished Member Array 5lima30ret's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Mountains of Western North Carolina
    Posts
    1,403
    M-1 carbines are great little guns! Its too bad that they have gotten so expensive!
    Phaedrus likes this.
    Retired Police Lieutenant, Retired USAF Reserve, Glock Armorer, NC CWP, HR-218 Qualified
    Second generation American, Third generation Legionnaire
    "I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me" Phil 4:13

  10. #10
    VIP Member Array Phaedrus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    2,381
    It's a shame those little M-1s are so expensive now. For the $800-$900 they now command I supposed I'd maybe try a Beretta Storm Carbine (they can be had in 9mm, .40 & .45 ACP). The late lamented Marlin Camp Carbine was another nice one.
    "When Fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis

    You can tell whether a man is clever by his answers. You can tell whether a man is wise by his questions. - Naguib Mahfouz

  11. #11
    VIP Member Array Kilowatt3's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    SW Louisiana
    Posts
    2,658
    Quote Originally Posted by pgrass101 View Post
    My Home Defense Rifle

    I originally chose my personal defensive rifle on a few factors
    1st that it had an effective mid range cartridge that was readily available, I was not looking for a battle rifle but a defense firearm
    2nd that it was handy and light weight, that I could/would carry it and maneuver around with it in a house or vehicle
    3rd that it was accurate and capable of laying down a high rate of fire
    4th that is had a proven track record of reliability
    And finally that I could afford one.

    In 1993 this list was just in the back of my mind but it had no more flesh on it than what appears before. I settled on the M1-Carbine. At the time you could buy a carbine in very Good condition for around $300 and an AR would be closer to $1000. AKs were getting close to $1,000 as the buying frenzy before the AWB was getting heated up.

    At the time, magazines and ammo for the carbine could be found in abundance and they did not meet the criteria to be banned under the AWB. I have found the little carbine to be one of the most natural pointing rifles that I have shot and this with its low recoil makes it easy to train new shooters on. Its light weight and small size makes it a breeze to carry (which mainly means that it will be carried) and very handy in tight environments.

    It is worth remembering that the little carbine was designed as a Personal Defense Weapon and it still excels at this. The .30 caliber round while not a rifle round it is no slouch and I feel comfortable with it out to 200 yds, and the little M1 carbine definitely gives you a feeling of security (maybe more than the little round should) as you tote it around.

    Since I started in 1993, I have been working on equipping my whole family with the Carbine to use as our main defensive long gun. Now the .30 carbine round is not as cheap or plentiful as it was 20 years ago and you can by a decent AR for the same price as a decent M1 Carbine.

    I still think that the little carbine is a very viable choice in 2013, especially since it isn't evil and black and a collectable piece of history.
    When I went shopping for my first defensive rifle in the mid-70's, I had pretty much the same list of criteria. I ended up with a Mini-14. I find that it has a LOT in common with the M1 Carbine.

    IIRC, I paid about $200 OTD. It wasn't the most accurate rifle on the planet, but more than adequate for SD, and it met all the other points quite well - particularly the "I could afford one." AR's were going for $500-$600, and were still suffering a bad rep from the early (pre-M16A1) experiences of the troops coming back from Vietnam.

    I looked at a few M1 Carbines, but good ones were hard to find, and cost at least as much as the Mini, IIRC. What probably swayed me was the huge amount of surplus 5.56 ammo available, cheap.

    In recent years, AR's have gotten a LOT better and a LOT cheaper (in real dollars), while the Mini-14 has gotten a little better and a little more expensive (again, in real dollars). I've shifted to the AR as the primary SD rifle, but I still count the Mini-14 as a favorite "fun gun", and I still want to add an M1 Carbine to the collection one of these days. FWIW.
    Regards,
    Jim
    NRA Life Member
    Charter Member (#00002) of the DC .41 LC Society
    He that cannot reason is a fool. He that will not is a bigot. He that dare not is a slave. - Andrew Carnegie

  12. #12
    Sponsor
    Array AzQkr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    In the Superstitions
    Posts
    4,058
    pgrass101,

    Great rifle choice. I stayed with the Ruger mini30 for the same reasons as you with the carbine. Light, fast in the hands, short carbine, but with a little more punch with the 762x39 to boot. The m1 carbines have near zero recoil and that's conducive to other family members not worrying about your choice but capable of handling the choice as well as the dad.
    The mind is the limiting factor

    Quick Kill Rifle and Pistol Instructor

  13. #13
    Member Array IronicOutlook's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Nebraska
    Posts
    41
    I had a vietnam era M1 carbine that I bought in 2003 for about $200 I sold it in 2005 for $500 and I am really mad that I did because I can't find anything in good shape for under $800.
    ccw9mm likes this.

  14. #14
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    27,083
    Quote Originally Posted by AzQkr View Post
    The m1 carbines have near zero recoil and that's conducive to other family members not worrying about your choice but capable of handling the choice as well as the dad.
    That's one of the best features of the M1 Carbine, IMO. Makes for a very stable, accurate platform, one that a variety of people can easily master. Not the most modern stuff, and it ain't "evil black rifle" sexy, but it gets the job done better than most stuff out there.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •