Rifle course for .22 Home Defense Rifles
This is a discussion on Rifle course for .22 Home Defense Rifles within the Defensive Rifles & Shotgun Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; A number of my friends wives, girlfriends, and daughters have equipped themselves with .22 rifles for home defense. So I made up a practice course ...
November 26th, 2013 10:44 PM
Rifle course for .22 Home Defense Rifles
A number of my friends wives, girlfriends, and daughters have equipped themselves with .22 rifles for home defense. So I made up a practice course for them based off the old FBI Subgun course. At the end, each target should have 25 rounds in it. If anyone shoots it, I would be interested in the times it took. The Par times are still up in the air in my mind.
November 26th, 2013 10:49 PM
Just a note, from my own experience and working with fairly new shooters:
If these women are not very experienced shooters I would suggest that you do not specify times - until they become proficient shooting X's in their own time. Then gently encourage them to build up speed. My experience has been that a lot of new shooters are totally turned off if they feel pushed, and time limits are "pushing" - or at least they see them that way.
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Talking to each other here is good, but taking action is better.
November 27th, 2013 11:52 AM
Looks like a solid viable course! One thing important with any of these type courses but especially so is trigger/ threat management! I've always liked the .22mag in a rifle! In some cases it may be more lethal than a standard .38 spl! I have always thought that a lever action rifle in .22 mag would be a good choice for someone who is either disabled or unable to shoot a full sized centerfire rifle. Good luck with your course!
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November 27th, 2013 12:04 PM
Given it would be tough to find a home with 25 yards in it, I would reduce the ranges even more to reflect what would be encountered within a home.
3 yards (9 ft.....within a standard room)
7 yards (21 ft....across a room)
12 yards (36 ft ....down a long hall)
This will give you realistic ranges for in-home defense
Additionally, I would add a "closing target" coming in from 15 yards to 3 yards, to simulate a charging threat. This can be added to the end of the course of fire.
Many folks get startled by the closeness of most encounters and the closing target gives them a perspective on how easy it is to close a gap and how important it is to not hesitate in your decisions.
Easy enough to do with the carriages on indoor ranges.
November 27th, 2013 12:46 PM
Good job on the course! The time thing, I'm with Shootergranny on that.
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November 27th, 2013 01:09 PM
I'm with Chorizo on altering the ranges. I also agree with ShooterGranny about not putting them on a timer for a while.
You might also consider adding a partial target that would reflect someone coming around or leaning around a corner.
And stress bursts. Three rounds minimum. If it's worth one, it's worth five.
November 27th, 2013 01:13 PM
Ammo might be something to consider as well. I have done a lot of .22 hunting, coons mostly, and that .22lr Stinger HP that CCI makes always puts out a nasty wound. Might be something to mention as well.
November 27th, 2013 03:12 PM
I looked at a couple of gel tests a little while ago. HP didn't penetrate enough. Go with FMJ. You've got to get at least a foot out of it to get to the good parts.
November 27th, 2013 05:54 PM
True but it's not hard to find a property with 25 yards on it. One of the ladies I had in mind has a property kind of in the middle of nowhere. She and I have had the discussion about standoff distance from a group of known predators. My colleague, Tom Givens, has had 60 of his students involved in shootings in the City of Memphis. Of those 60, 3 took place in excess of 15 yards, all justifiable. So, I think the inclusion of some distance work is appropriate.
Originally Posted by Chorizo
November 27th, 2013 07:15 PM
Then add a reduced course of fire for distance, but 3 shootings out of 60 only make for 5% of the shootings. You cannot train for every possible scenario, so you should train to the likely scenario and either speak to or have a "familiarization" course of fire to expose them to other possible situations. Solid fundamentals will allow them to adapt their training to a situation.
I like the idea of your course of fire for the 22 rifle, but as most shootings are much closer and given the potential hesitation by folks without the correct mindset, it would be a disservice to not train close.
Good luck. You have a very innovative approach that will serve your students well.
For a frame of reference:
November 27th, 2013 08:18 PM
Being able to shoot something further away than your target is going to be much less of a problem than not being able to effectively engage a target because you only practiced close-in stuff.
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November 27th, 2013 08:35 PM
This is true. I agree that you should practice close in shots, but really only as a matter of reinforcement of how close self-defense situations actually are.
Originally Posted by Echo_Four
But if you can shoot accurately at 25m, you can shoot accurately closer in.
I'd do 50-75% of the time focused on 25m/yds, and the other 25-50% on close-quarters and quick, accurate follow-up shots.
"Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everyone you meet."
-General James Mattis, USMC
November 27th, 2013 08:42 PM
No, you generally can't. Extensive data does NOT support your proposition. Did you read the article on the FBI I attached? That is why they are training close after years of the other type of training.
Originally Posted by pittypat21
Remember your Corps time: Train like you are going to fight.
Engaging somebody in a defensive situation at 25 yards is highly unlikely to happen. If it does happen, the likely thing is that you are going to jail as it will be extremely hard to prove you were in life/limb threatening danger UNLESS he was already shooting at you.
An excerpt for you to read from the article:
But hold on. If you and your pistol can drill a magazine’s worth of bullets into a target’s X ring at 25 yards, you should be able to make every shot count at 10 feet or less, right?
It’s a lot harder than it sounds. According to an article published by the Police Policy Studies Council (a research-based, law enforcement training and consultation corporation), in Florida between 1990 and 2001, officers with the Metro-Dade Police, “fired about 1,300 bullets at suspects, and missed more than 1,100 times. This suggests that Miami police fared no better than a 15.4% hit ratio…”
In New York City, police who used their firearms in “Gunfights, Other Shootings vs Perpetrator, and Against Dogs,” hit their intended targets only 38 percent of the time at distances between zero and two yards—and just 17 percent of the time at three to seven yards. This data was gathered from 1994 to 2000.
Those misses aren’t a huge surprise to Tiger McKee, owner of and chief trainer at the Shootrite Firearms Academy in Guthrie, Alabama. First off, he notes, there’s a huge difference psychologically between shooting at a target range versus defending yourself from an armed perpetrator actively trying to kill you. The adrenaline surge alone can cause jumpy shot placement by even the best pistol marksmen.
That said, McKee adds that traditional police handgun training at the range does not give officers enough practice in real-life shooting scenarios, and he’s encouraged by what the FBI is doing with its close-range emphasis.
“At three yards away, you just don’t have time to get a perfect sight picture,” McKee says. “The good thing is, at that range you don’t need a perfect sight picture—if you’ve had some real practice.”
Read more: http://www.handgunsmag.com/2013/06/2...#ixzz2lttO7VOi
Though lots of people argue about the veracity of much of the data reported annually in the FBI Uniform Crime Report (UCR), few disagree with the section that deals with average engagement ranges. In fact, with only minor fluctuations each year, the UCR has for its entire existence (since 1968) indicated that handgun encounters generally take place at short ranges.
And yet, just what does that statement mean? If you ask the average self-defense shooter or even the typical police officer to tell you the statistical average handgun engagement range, as often as not, the response will be "7 yards." Well, 7 yards (21 feet) is close, but that figure isn't correct and has no factual or historic basis. In fact, it is entirely arbitrary -- seven to ten feet is more like it.
And that is close -- very close, which means that reaction/response times and the execution of physical defense procedures are severely limited. Simply put, to train at range beginning at 7 yards is a mistake, because regardless of whose statistics you choose to believe, virtually all of them cite 7-10 feet as the norm.
And some more:
Ignoring the hard facts................ well, draw your own conclusions.
November 27th, 2013 08:52 PM
Understanding the threat differential of multiple targets at different distances in different situations can be valuable......even if it does exceed the known distances in the environment an individual will be fighting in.I have never known adaptability to be a negative in a gunfight.
November 27th, 2013 09:04 PM
For every rifle or pistol I have I have a 22lr just like it. I have been doing this for years and years. You have to do everything with a 22 that you have to do with a bigger caliber. Except for recoil management. If you are shooting a 22 just like you would a larger caliber firm grip locked wrist then recoil management isn't that difficult to mange. The only thing about it is 22 are a hard to find as hens teeth.
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