help me on red dot and magnifier

help me on red dot and magnifier

This is a discussion on help me on red dot and magnifier within the Defensive Rifles & Shotgun Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Tried a red dot with 2 moa on an AR15. Was OK at 50 yds, but I could barely see the dot the 100yds. This ...

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 16
Like Tree7Likes

Thread: help me on red dot and magnifier

  1. #1
    Member Array boatman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    NE
    Posts
    171

    help me on red dot and magnifier

    Tried a red dot with 2 moa on an AR15. Was OK at 50 yds, but I could barely see the dot the 100yds. This is due to my eyes, the red dot had 7 levels of brightness and 3 choices of reticle.

    Since I am not interested in 300 yd stuff, I was hoping that a red dot and a magnifier could work for me?

    I saw at Primary Arms a bunch of red dots that have screw in magnifiers, not sure how practical that would work. I would want a 1 MOA red dot I think because a 2x magnifier would make this a 2 MOA , etc. correct?

    Hoping that the collective experience here at DC could provide me with some real world advice of whether or not this is practical solution, and if so, if you could recommend brands, show pictures of what it would look like etc. Or should I be using the Nikon 3-9x scope, which is very large and highly accurate, but doesn't give the same quick sightings. Thanks.


  2. #2
    VIP Member
    Array Chorizo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    SW Idaho
    Posts
    2,033
    Sounds like you need a scope.

    Try the P223 from Nikon. Small, durable and made for the AR-15. On sale now for $100. Gets good reviews.

    https://www.primaryarms.com/Nikon-NK...ope-p/8496.htm
    21 years and 21 days, United States Marine Corps & NRA Life Member since 1972

    "The trouble is with the increasingly widespread problem of idiots prancing around out there confusing their opinions with actual facts." peckman28

  3. #3
    VIP Member Array Sticks's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    3,419
    Depending on the type of RDS, 1 yard or 100 yards, the size of the dot is the same. Brightness level will make it easier to see against high contrast targets or bright daylight. If you were OK at 50y but could not see the dot at 100, turn the brightness up a bit. I would question the quality of a RDS that has three reticules however, unless you meant color of dot, even then...

    I have not shot a magnifier but I would presume that it would magnify the dot only marginally, probably make it a bit fuzzy.

    I have an Aimpoint PRO on my 16" middy, no magnifier, and have no difficulty with it out to 200y - farthest I have shot with a RDS. My eyesight is horrid and the astigmatism makes the dot more of a comet, but I can still pull off sub MOA @ 100 with it.

    If you were looking to get a new RDS for your rifle - Aimpoint PRO is the best bang for the buck out there. Top quality, and affordable. I would not go with a Primary Arms RDS plus magnifier - but that's me. I've seen them fail at the carbine classes that I have taken, and for just a little more $$$ you can get yourself a top shelf product.
    atctimmy likes this.
    Sticks

    Grasseater // Grass~eat~er noun, often attributive \ˈgras-ē-tər\
    A person who is incapable of independent thought; a person who is herd animal-like in behavior; one who cannot distinguish between right and wrong; a foolish person.
    See also Sheep

  4. #4
    Member Array boatman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    NE
    Posts
    171
    Thanks. Already have a scope. I think my issue is just seeing a very small dot during the day at 300'. The rds was a mediocre one, but I would expect that its' brightness level to be pretty good, it was turned all the way up. i did see on PA site that there are bunch of eotech with 'swing out' magnifiers. I have read some of the threads discussing eotech vs. aimpoint. Both are good. If you say you can see a dot at 200 yds

  5. #5
    VIP Member
    Array atctimmy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    NSA Headquarters
    Posts
    6,443
    If you are dead set on a red dot then sticks nailed it. Go with an Aimpoint PRO (patrol rifle optic). I have one and it is great.

    BUT not every product is for everyone. With your eyesight problems I suggest a road trip to a Cabela's or Bass Pro. Get there early before the crowds and check out a bunch of products. Look at the Nikon scope mentioned in post #2 and look at Leupold's 1X4 AR scopes. There are lots of products to look at and at a big store you can look at 7 or 8 things side by side and compare them. Then take home what you like best. Cheers.

    I suggest this, the fire dot reticle model:

    Leupold Mark AR MOD 1 1.5-4x20mm P5 Dial Riflescope, Matte Black FREE S&H 115387, 115388. Leupold Mark AR Rifle Scopes, Leupold Mark AR AR15 Accessories, Leupold AR15 Rifle Scopes.


    It is surely true that you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink. Nor can you make them grateful for your efforts.

  6. #6
    VIP Member Array Sticks's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    3,419
    Atctimmy nailed it. A low power variable scope with a daylight visible dot. That might be your ticket there. Can't question too much the Leupold quality.
    Sticks

    Grasseater // Grass~eat~er noun, often attributive \ˈgras-ē-tər\
    A person who is incapable of independent thought; a person who is herd animal-like in behavior; one who cannot distinguish between right and wrong; a foolish person.
    See also Sheep

  7. #7
    VIP Member
    Array atctimmy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    NSA Headquarters
    Posts
    6,443
    It is surely true that you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink. Nor can you make them grateful for your efforts.

  8. #8
    VIP Member Array jonconsiglio's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Corpus Christi, Texas
    Posts
    3,172
    There's pic with and with the magnifier in my thread on proper use of red dots stickied in this sub forum.

    The dot will appear larger with a magnifier, but it stays the same size in relation to the target. So. 2 moa is 2 moa no matter how much it's magnified. It still only covers 2" at 100 yards.

    A variable power 1-x optic could be a good choice.
    kaikane0812 likes this.
    Proven combat techniques may not be flashy and may require a bit more physical effort on the part of the shooter. Further, they may not win competition matches, but they will help ensure your survival in a shooting or gunfight on the street. ~Paul Howe

  9. #9
    Member Array boatman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    NE
    Posts
    171
    Jon,

    thanks, read your thread.

    what are thoughts of screw in magnifier vs. swing in. And brands. I was PA site, looking at aimpoint pro, however, they have a variety of magnifiers (oddly enough, the page always says, 'discontinued'?)

    Also, aimpoint vs. eotech vs. vortex when it comes to magnifier? This is not for battlefield situations.

  10. #10
    Member Array boatman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    NE
    Posts
    171
    Timmy,

    I was looking back through another thread I posted on using optics and RDS, and you had posted a pic of a setup you had with your rds mounted between your scope mounts, on an angle. I can't get to copy paste the pic from my phone, but here is the thread

    red dot and scope together on AR?

    Are you still using this setup, or did it not work out well. It looks to be a good compromise. I was wondering if having the rds like that slows down target acquisition.

  11. #11
    Member Array liquid150's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    St. Louis, MO
    Posts
    246
    A magnifier with a red dot is only good for out to about 100 yards for me, personally. Anything beyond that and I want a scope.

    However, if you are dead set on a red dot with magnifier, the Aimpoint Pro is a great dot (I have one) and the Vortex VMX-3T is a nice magnifier for the money.
    Chorizo likes this.

  12. #12
    VIP Member
    Array Chorizo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    SW Idaho
    Posts
    2,033
    Concur. The limitations of the optics on lower end glass really preclude magnification. If you want magnification, go with high end glass or better yet, a scope with illumination like the Leupold VX-R patrol 1.25X4 power

    Gear Review: Leupold VX-R Patrol 1.25-4x20mm Riflescope | The Truth About Guns

    http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/201...d-vx-r-patrol/
    21 years and 21 days, United States Marine Corps & NRA Life Member since 1972

    "The trouble is with the increasingly widespread problem of idiots prancing around out there confusing their opinions with actual facts." peckman28

  13. #13
    VIP Member
    Array atctimmy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    NSA Headquarters
    Posts
    6,443
    Quote Originally Posted by boatman View Post
    Timmy,

    I was looking back through another thread I posted on using optics and RDS, and you had posted a pic of a setup you had with your rds mounted between your scope mounts, on an angle. I can't get to copy paste the pic from my phone, but here is the thread

    red dot and scope together on AR?

    Are you still using this setup, or did it not work out well. It looks to be a good compromise. I was wondering if having the rds like that slows down target acquisition.
    That set up worked quite well. I really only used that rifle for shooting ground hogs though and not for shooting in a match as I had initially intended. So I eventually sold the rifle and put the red dot on something else.

    The concept was sound though and if I ever really get into rifle matches again I'll set up another gun the same way (I still have the scope and the dot). The catch here is that you are looking at around $700 in optics with that set up and you can get a Leupold 1X4 with the fire dot for about $400. IMO the Leupold is probably better for HD where my set up was for a specific role (match shooting).

    ETA: When I say the Leupold is better for HD it's because you can have it on low power and with the dot be pretty darn quick. Then if you need to reach out then you just dial up the magnification and shoot. The distance factor means you are more likely to have time to adjust the scope up from 1 to 4X.

    My old set up is opposite. It was set up to shoot at far targets first because in a match that is mostly what we did. There were always some close in stuff too but the gun was meant to run fast on steel plates from 100 to 300 yards.
    Chorizo likes this.
    It is surely true that you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink. Nor can you make them grateful for your efforts.

  14. #14
    Distinguished Member
    Array Old_Dog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    1,443
    You shouldn't need a magnifier for 100 yards. I regularly shot at 100 yards distances at the range for both practice and competition and had no problem in seeing the dot on my EOTec even on sunny days. I have even used much cheaper red dot sights on my AR15 at 100 yards. Unless you have a very cheap or not well made red dot, you should not need a magnifier. First off, a good magnifier is going to cost you a lot of money. A cheap one will narrow your field of vision which is never a good idea if you plan on using the rifle for defense.

    If money is not a problem, the ideal setup is what we use in competition; a magnified scope for long shots and a red dot mounted on the rail on the side. In this way you can shoot at both short and long distance targets by simply looking through the right scope. Some magnified scopes even allow you to mount a red dot on top of them.

    Quite honestly I used to be able to hit chest sized targets at 300 yards every time in the military with my M16 using iron sights. These days it seems that everyone wants to add electronics before they give practicing with iron sights a chance. I personally went back to iron sights because no matter how well I thought I was doing in changing the batteries and checking the scope, it sometimes went dead on me during a competition. It was not uncommon for me to check my red dot the night before the competition and have it work and then die in the middle of a stage. My way around that was to co-witness my red dot with iron sights and can work for you too. 100 yards is not far for a rifle unless you are a bulls eye shooter. I am a combat shooter and not interested in putting them into the X. I want to be able to shoot fast and put them all into COM and even with my old eyes, I can do that with iron sights.

    Do not get me wrong, I like red dot scopes as they make things easier but I am a big believer in learning to use iron sights first before going to electronic aids. I know lots of guys new to rifles and handguns who immediately put on red dots or laser sights and that is how they learn to shoot. That can work but I do not recommend it as the best way to learn.
    Chorizo likes this.
    If everyone had the same opinion, there would be no reason to give one. It is a given that each opinion is believed to be correct. It would be silly to post something you believed to be incorrect. :)

  15. #15
    VIP Member Array jonconsiglio's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Corpus Christi, Texas
    Posts
    3,172
    I think learning irons is very important. It'll teach you a lot about proper position of the stock, the importance of a consistent cheek weld, etc.

    If I'm out training, or even hunting, unless I thought I was going to be shooting beyond 200 yards regularly and was going to need to make precision shots as well as identifying small targets, I never used my magnifier. A 4 MOA T1 is all I use for 200 yards and closer. Within a couple hundred yards, I've never gained any noticeable accuracy with a magnifier. It helps me see better, but not shoot better.

    I've since sold all of my magnifiers. Actually, I no longer have my ACOG TA31 either.

    Now, if I knew I was going to be shooting both close and precision at medium distances, I'd save up and buy a high quality 1-4 or 1-6 optic. I keep saying I'm going to get one but have yet found a true need for it.

    I shoot faster and more accurately at speed with a red dot over irons, plus I gain the advantage of keeping my focus on the target instead of the front sight. But, part of that comes from my ability to do those things with irons as well, so the red dot actually is an advantage for me instead of just being my aiming system, if that makes sense.

    I say say buy a quality optic to use irons. For me, there's no reason to go with low quality. I hear good things about that Primary Arms, but don't have any experience. That may be one of the better "cheap" options, though I'd much prefer searching for a used Aimpoint. I've never had an Aimpoint fail on me other than a broken switch. I've had my one and only EoTech give out on me numerous time. I do like EoTechs and may some day pick up an EXPS-3 for the hell of it, but there's a lot of other stuff on my list I'd buy first.
    atctimmy and OD* like this.
    Proven combat techniques may not be flashy and may require a bit more physical effort on the part of the shooter. Further, they may not win competition matches, but they will help ensure your survival in a shooting or gunfight on the street. ~Paul Howe

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Search tags for this page

aimpoint pro vortex vmx-3t alignment colt
,
can i use magnifier with leupold
,
combat proven magnifier for red dot
,
firedot 4
,
how far can a red dot magnifier help you use your red dot
,
leupold fire dot
,
leupold magnified red dot
,
leupold red dot magnifier
,
leupold vx-r patrol vs primary arms
,

magnified red dot

,
vortex with aimpoint give comet
,
will magnifier with rds go past 200 yards
Click on a term to search for related topics.