When does a shotgun become a "destructive device"

When does a shotgun become a "destructive device"

This is a discussion on When does a shotgun become a "destructive device" within the Defensive Rifles & Shotgun Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; So here's a doozy, Back in the 80's/90's the USAS12 Streetsweeper was released for sale to the general public as a semi auto shotgun. There ...

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Thread: When does a shotgun become a "destructive device"

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    Member Array Linny's Avatar
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    When does a shotgun become a "destructive device"

    So here's a doozy,
    Back in the 80's/90's the USAS12 Streetsweeper was released for sale to the general public as a semi auto shotgun. There are many who melted their receivers when the ATF re-classified them as a destructive device. Naturally if you live in a state where DD's are bann category.ed you had no choice or just refused to register them (side-note: I am not talking about the select fire models that were predominantly dealer samples, semi auto only). This explains the mass quantities of USAS parts kits for sale. So my question is, since you can buy drums for saigas and saiga knock-offs, when does a semi auto shotgun cross over into the destructive device. Not worried, just curious,
    -Linny
    Edit: The reason I'm asking this is because I came across a youtube video of a guy showing off a rhodesian semi auto street sweeper that was also classified as a destructive device and required a tax stamp. I've seen many chopped saigas so I was curious.
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    VIP Member Array Ghost1958's Avatar
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    When I aim it at something and start pulling the trigger
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    Member Array Linny's Avatar
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    I see. I'm thinking it's when the ATF decides that they don't like people owning a certain model. Kinda interesting to see that a USAS12 semi auto is a destructive device, which will cost you $$$, while a Saiga is 750.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghost1958 View Post
    When I aim it at something and start pulling the trigger
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    LOL to get serious I dont believe a shotgun, or rifle, or handgun, can or should be classed as a destructive device. Of course we both know the ATF will say a toy gun can be modified into a AR-15 if they think they can make it stick. Actually I dont think anyone has the authority to be doing that sort of classification or that the ATF was ever meant to be more than a tax collection agency. But thats another thread.
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    Couple things of note they been waiting to do the whole steersweeper thing with the saiga buy by law can not .. They sucked a provsion into the grain bill that made sure the siag stay legal

    " SEC. 541. None of the funds made available by this Act may be used to pay the salaries or expenses of personnel to deny, or fail to act on, an application for the importation of any model of shotgun if–

    (1) all other requirements of law with respect to the proposed importation are met; and
    (2) no application for the importation of such model of shotgun, in the same configuration, had been denied by the Attorney General prior to January 1, 2011, on the basis that the shotgun was not particularly suitable for or readily adaptable to sporting purposes."

    Little Noticed Provision Kills ATF Shotgun Ban Plans


    This was almost a repaet of what happen with the both the spsas 12/15 guns and the strretsweaper

    See the deal is most any shotgun is in fact by the letter of the law a DD as the bore is over .50 but as long as they are classed as "sporting guns" they are legal . Under pressuer from the brady group the higher ups said that in fact the usas and a few others were in fact DD as they had no sporting purpose . Intreseted note to all of this since they are now DD owners of resg guns can saw them down below 18inch barrel as they are now the same as SBS.

    Howver if you watch vids on the streesweper it sucks as a gun . It is scary and such but it is a crap of matcic Streetsweeper Shotgun


    And as a side note the oringal gyro jet pistole is in fact a DD but is not regsitered as one but are by law DD..



    The largest caliber one can buy that is not a DD is 50 cal. There are larger ones over 50 but for them to be legal they have to have a sporting purpose ie usally very big game rifle /signgle shot guns etc.


    So that is why the 20mm antigun out there we can own but are not sporting guns thus DD . lahti.jpg this is a 20mm legal to own but a DD


    Also as a side note if the barrel of a saiga is below 18 inch it is either a AOW or SBS depednign on how it was built and thus tax stamp..


    And again siags have to deal with 922r laws to be converted into tactaicl guns you see..

    here is a link that has link to the rulings back in the 90s http://forums.gunboards.com/showthre...ructive-Device

    In reality they have been very few shotguns re classed after 1934 as DD most are either normal shotguns or fall into the AOW or SBS cat.

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    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Linny View Post
    When does a shotgun become a "destructive device"
    When they claim it is. Fact is, any weapon in the hands of a human can cause some destruction ... of a target, a 2x4, a country ham, a hunted animal, or an assailant. It's just a matter of when the other shoe drops, in reality, as to when they reclassify this or that tool as "destructive."
    Last edited by ccw9mm; January 2nd, 2014 at 11:00 AM. Reason: spelling
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    When you run out of shells and start bashing heads...?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghost1958 View Post
    LOL to get serious I dont believe a shotgun, or rifle, or handgun, can or should be classed as a destructive device. Of course we both know the ATF will say a toy gun can be modified into a AR-15 if they think they can make it stick...
    And a bump fire or slam fire makes it a select fire weapon - that they have made that stick.
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    Interesting!

    Just came across this:
    Shotguns.jpg
    The KSG is legal, but the Neostead 2000 is not. Go figure.
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    You mean (gulp) that some gun laws are...counter-intuitive & arbitrary? Tell me more.
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    The image that came to mind when reading the title was someone going Office Space style with a shotgun on a copy machine...I think that qualifies.

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    VIP Member Array Kilowatt3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ghost tracker View Post
    You mean (gulp) that some gun laws are...counter-intuitive & arbitrary? Tell me more.
    No, it's intuitively obvious that most gun laws are counterintuitive & arbitrary.

    What I found interesting was the Neostead shotgun. I'd never seen one before. Looks like it was the inspiration for the KSG. Kel-Tek just kinda turned the action upside-down to move the mags from the top to under the barrel.
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    Quote Originally Posted by WrongRecroom View Post
    Couple things of note they been waiting to do the whole steersweeper thing with the saiga buy by law can not .. They sucked a provsion into the grain bill that made sure the siag stay legal

    " SEC. 541. None of the funds made available by this Act may be used to pay the salaries or expenses of personnel to deny, or fail to act on, an application for the importation of any model of shotgun if–

    (1) all other requirements of law with respect to the proposed importation are met; and
    (2) no application for the importation of such model of shotgun, in the same configuration, had been denied by the Attorney General prior to January 1, 2011, on the basis that the shotgun was not particularly suitable for or readily adaptable to sporting purposes."

    Little Noticed Provision Kills ATF Shotgun Ban Plans


    This was almost a repaet of what happen with the both the spsas 12/15 guns and the strretsweaper

    See the deal is most any shotgun is in fact by the letter of the law a DD as the bore is over .50 but as long as they are classed as "sporting guns" they are legal . Under pressuer from the brady group the higher ups said that in fact the usas and a few others were in fact DD as they had no sporting purpose . Intreseted note to all of this since they are now DD owners of resg guns can saw them down below 18inch barrel as they are now the same as SBS.

    Howver if you watch vids on the streesweper it sucks as a gun . It is scary and such but it is a crap of matcic Streetsweeper Shotgun


    And as a side note the oringal gyro jet pistole is in fact a DD but is not regsitered as one but are by law DD..



    The largest caliber one can buy that is not a DD is 50 cal. There are larger ones over 50 but for them to be legal they have to have a sporting purpose ie usally very big game rifle /signgle shot guns etc.


    So that is why the 20mm antigun out there we can own but are not sporting guns thus DD . lahti.jpg this is a 20mm legal to own but a DD


    Also as a side note if the barrel of a saiga is below 18 inch it is either a AOW or SBS depednign on how it was built and thus tax stamp..


    And again siags have to deal with 922r laws to be converted into tactaicl guns you see..

    here is a link that has link to the rulings back in the 90s When does a shotgun turn into a Destructive Device?

    In reality they have been very few shotguns re classed after 1934 as DD most are either normal shotguns or fall into the AOW or SBS cat.
    Thank you. Although I have no interest in owning such items, your explanation of the way things are was quite interesting and
    I assume and hope accurate. Fascinating.
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    When my wife gets her hands on it
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    Thank you. Although I have no interest in owning such items, your explanation of the way things are was quite interesting and
    I assume and hope accurate. Fascinating.

    Your welcome . I am not a lawyer so fyi just like reading guns laws . Frankly the whole NFA stuff is a wild read and tricky. Esp DD and with AOW stuff .. There are some fun DD out there my dealer has a live firing 75mm german anti tank gun for sale for example .. And AOW are fund as they are the cheeper NFA stuff and you could buy a pen gun , some forms of cut down shotguns etc. Even 40mm launcher as legal with a tax stamp ..

    Heck with the right FFL you can make all sorts of things that make a loud noise



    My persoan fav non nfa gun that looks like a Nfa is the so called 'other guns"

    P1100114-1024x684.jpg Normal this is illegal AOW but since the gun is over 26 inch and has no butstock you can own this as a normal pistol..

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