A question on 300 BO

A question on 300 BO

This is a discussion on A question on 300 BO within the Defensive Rifles & Shotgun Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; So if one went full ninja with a suppressed 300 blackout using subsonic loads for home defense, (in my mind subsonic suppressed is cool on ...

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  1. #1
    Member Array glocknjeep's Avatar
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    A question on 300 BO

    So if one went full ninja with a suppressed 300 blackout using subsonic loads for home defense, (in my mind subsonic suppressed is cool on ninja levels) is there over penetration issues like in handguns or is there significant yaw and breakup like .556?


  2. #2
    Distinguished Member Array Exacto's Avatar
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    Even at subsonic muzzle velocity, the 300 is a little over 1000 fps, more than most handguns. You could have an over penetration issue depending on the bullet type and shot placement.
    Let your plans be dark and impenetrable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunder bolt...... Sun Tzu.

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    VIP Member Array Jaeger's Avatar
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    I would say over penetration is an issue with any rifle if you live in a newer apartment building or there are friendliest in the house. .30 cal is no joke even when moving sub-sonic. Maybe there are some soft HPs you could load to mitigate, but it's whole purpose is to match the AK47 at close range. I'm not an expert, but I would be at least as concerned as shooting a .357 or .44.
    “Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive." C.S. Lewis

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    VIP Member Array Jaeger's Avatar
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    Exacto beat me to it.
    “Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive." C.S. Lewis

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    Member Array glocknjeep's Avatar
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    just saw this...not good.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1Q7xRmZAtk

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    VIP Member Array jonconsiglio's Avatar
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    Subsonic is going to be similar to a 45 for with FMJ. Not my choice for home defense. A 110gr VMAX 300blk or 75gr TAP 5.56 will be less deadly after penetrating a wall or other intermediate barrier.

    Now, there are some OTM subsonics coming out that should be pretty good, but I have zero knowledge of their performance.
    Proven combat techniques may not be flashy and may require a bit more physical effort on the part of the shooter. Further, they may not win competition matches, but they will help ensure your survival in a shooting or gunfight on the street. ~Paul Howe

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    Member Array glocknjeep's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonconsiglio View Post
    Subsonic is going to be similar to a 45 for with FMJ. Not my choice for home defense. A 110gr VMAX 300blk or 75gr TAP 5.56 will be less deadly after penetrating a wall or other intermediate barrier.

    Now, there are some OTM subsonics coming out that should be pretty good, but I have zero knowledge of their performance.
    Good to know. So it sounds like the tradeoff for quiet in your home is not worth the poor terminal ballistics with current subsonic loadings but hopefully that will get solved by the time Tavor 300 BO barrel is offered.

  8. #8
    VIP Member Array jonconsiglio's Avatar
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    That's my opinion. Subs are great if you need super quiet. There have been great results on hogs and deer if you read the hunting forums. I prefer mine unsuppressed with Black Tip for any defensive use.
    Proven combat techniques may not be flashy and may require a bit more physical effort on the part of the shooter. Further, they may not win competition matches, but they will help ensure your survival in a shooting or gunfight on the street. ~Paul Howe

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    Yes you will have an issue of over penetration.


    Having killed numerous deer with the subsonic 220 grain round that travels about 1050 FPS, I have yet to see one stop on a deer.

    It punches right through them and it tumbles and twists and tears stuff up on the way out.

    The people that have never used subsonics on anything but paper and even those that have never shot one, will quote the paper statistics and say that it it equal to a .45 ACP. While that may be true on paper, it is far from the reality of it.
    For one, the sectional density of the Sierra Match Boat Tail Hollow point is one of the best that there is. It is superior in every way to the 230 grain .45 HP with the sectional density of a brick. That short, fat, slow moving bullet isn't even in the same league as the Blackout when it comes to penetration.

    A long heavy bullet will out penetrate a short, fat heavy bullet of close to the same weight every time.

    In the way of penetration, the 220 subsonic will out penetrate the .223 supersonic most of the time. For one, that 223 is going so fast that it often breaks up and fragments. The 220 will break bone and keep on going, it isn't going to fragment and its rare that it even expands, usually punching right through. I have many bullets that I have pulled out of the berm that I could actually reload and shoot again.

    Humans are relatively soft targets. Shoot them center mass and there really isn't much there to slow a bullet down. Even if you center the spinal column, that 220 will blow right through it like it isn't even there and keep on going with plenty to spare.

    For this reason, I would not recommend using the sub 220's for home defense. There is just too much penetration. Way more than handguns or even most rifles. I have recovered bullets in deer using .308's,30-06's .30-30's, and other calibers. I have yet to recover a subsonic 220 from a deer.
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    Distinguished Member Array GlassWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glocknjeep View Post
    So if one went full ninja with a suppressed 300 blackout using subsonic loads for home defense, (in my mind subsonic suppressed is cool on ninja levels) is there over penetration issues like in handguns or is there significant yaw and breakup like .556?
    I actually use a .300AAC SBR suppressed for HD. I don't worry about punching holes through the BG, though. I'm always aware of what's behind my target. I think the next thing I need for my SBR/HD is night vision, so I don't need to use the tac light. Force multipliers are great.
    I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do. I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do.

  11. #11
    Senior Member Array medmunds21's Avatar
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    YES... Over penetration happens.
    "A free man is he who does not fear to go to the end of his thought."

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    VIP Member Array jonconsiglio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HotGuns View Post
    Yes you will have an issue of over penetration.


    Having killed numerous deer with the subsonic 220 grain round that travels about 1050 FPS, I have yet to see one stop on a deer.

    It punches right through them and it tumbles and twists and tears stuff up on the way out.

    The people that have never used subsonics on anything but paper and even those that have never shot one, will quote the paper statistics and say that it it equal to a .45 ACP. While that may be true on paper, it is far from the reality of it.
    For one, the sectional density of the Sierra Match Boat Tail Hollow point is one of the best that there is. It is superior in every way to the 230 grain .45 HP with the sectional density of a brick. That short, fat, slow moving bullet isn't even in the same league as the Blackout when it comes to penetration.

    A long heavy bullet will out penetrate a short, fat heavy bullet of close to the same weight every time.

    In the way of penetration, the 220 subsonic will out penetrate the .223 supersonic most of the time. For one, that 223 is going so fast that it often breaks up and fragments. The 220 will break bone and keep on going, it isn't going to fragment and its rare that it even expands, usually punching right through. I have many bullets that I have pulled out of the berm that I could actually reload and shoot again.

    Humans are relatively soft targets. Shoot them center mass and there really isn't much there to slow a bullet down. Even if you center the spinal column, that 220 will blow right through it like it isn't even there and keep on going with plenty to spare.

    For this reason, I would not recommend using the sub 220's for home defense. There is just too much penetration. Way more than handguns or even most rifles. I have recovered bullets in deer using .308's,30-06's .30-30's, and other calibers. I have yet to recover a subsonic 220 from a deer.
    Just to be clear, when I mentioned 45 above, I meant it would perform similarly to a FMJ 45 in terms of penetration concerning walls and door. It definitely has superior terminal ballistics.
    Proven combat techniques may not be flashy and may require a bit more physical effort on the part of the shooter. Further, they may not win competition matches, but they will help ensure your survival in a shooting or gunfight on the street. ~Paul Howe

  13. #13
    VIP Member Array Rob99VMI04's Avatar
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    HG are u using any cast subs in your blackout? If yes, How do these stack up with what you just previously stated about the 220?
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    Quote Originally Posted by GlassWolf View Post
    I actually use a .300AAC SBR suppressed for HD. I don't worry about punching holes through the BG, though. I'm always aware of what's behind my target. I think the next thing I need for my SBR/HD is night vision, so I don't need to use the tac light. Force multipliers are great.
    Not to drift this thread too far, but since the OP did talk about "going full ninja"

    Night vision generally doesn't work all that well indoors. Night vision needs ambient light, or an IR source, in order to really work well. So, you could do something like add a Peq-15 to your rifle that has an IR flood feature. But just plain night vision by itself indoors generally has some issues gathering enough light. And then there is the fact that your depth perception usually is greatly hindered with night vision, although that can be overcome to a degree with training.

    IR optics are better, but with IR or NVGs, you are going to run into target identification issues. So, IMHO, as someone who has run both IR and NVG optics on working rifles, for HD purposes, a tac light is a much better idea, provided of course, that you have had enough training with it to know how to use it correctly.

    Back to the OP's question: I have no idea, so I will defer to Jon and Hotguns.
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  15. #15
    Distinguished Member Array GlassWolf's Avatar
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    Yes, to clarify, I was thinking about a PEQ-15, and NVG. My home does have night lights throughout though, giving a very small amount of light, but using NVGs as opposed to light-gathering optics on the gun allows me to look around a room without doing it through an optic on the gun. The SBR has an EOtech EXPS3-2. which is NV compatible. If this was for my long rifle, then yeah I'd probably choose an NV scope. It's really just a matter of "Do I want to blind the BG with the strobe, or do I want to see him while he''s still fumbling in the dark with a mini-maglight in my home, before he knows I'm there?" tac light.. NV.. I like the idea of NV. I figure if my cats can see clearly in the house at night, the NV should be able to as well, even without the PEQ-15.
    I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do. I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do.

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