Lets talk cheap guns for a bit.

This is a discussion on Lets talk cheap guns for a bit. within the Defensive Rifles & Shotgun Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Ok guys, I know I'm probably opening a huge can of worms here but I'm curious. Okay first the only centerfire rifle I own is ...

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    Distinguished Member Array Eric357's Avatar
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    Lets talk cheap guns for a bit.

    Ok guys, I know I'm probably opening a huge can of worms here but I'm curious. Okay first the only centerfire rifle I own is my Marlin 336ss 30/30 that I have owned for about 9 years. It was my dream rifle for a long time. As you know from other threads I'm just looking around to see whats out there. Most bolt guns that have always interested me have been Rem 700 series, Win model 70 (feather weight is a beautiful gun), Browning , and such guns.

    Recently even the Ruger gunsite scout sparked my interest. Well tonight we had to take an elderly lady to the doctor. While my wife was there with here I decided to drive over to Scheels and just browse a bit. Mixed amidst the more traditional rifles and "tactical" models were a whole mess of "bargain" rifles. Now these are rifles that normally I don't look at due to I really don't care for black synthetic stocks. Some of these prices were unbelievable to me.. I'll list some of the guns in a minute. But my question is what gives. How can these guns be that much cheaper than other guns by some of the same makers. Are these guns just absolute junk? Or are they great deals?


    Ruger American rifle= $399
    Rem 783=$299
    Savage axis with scope=$339.
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    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric357 View Post
    ... a whole mess of "bargain" rifles. Now these are rifles that normally I don't look at due to I really don't care for black synthetic stocks. Some of these prices were unbelievable to me.. I'll list some of the guns in a minute. But my question is what gives. How can these guns be that much cheaper than other guns by some of the same makers. Are these guns just absolute junk? Or are they great deals?
    Depends on the specific guns in question. Many simply don't have the "tactical" (or, whatever) contemporary look most folks seem to go for. Most languish on the racks and need to be moved, or are bygone models that folks simply ignore. In many cases, these can be so-called diamonds in the rough.

    A small shotgun shop I used to frequent often had Belgian-made Browning A5 shotguns of all sorts, in varying conditions. Some were amazingly priced. The shop knew darned well what they had, and they valued them, but largely the public in the area didn't see them the same way. And so, many were up there amongst the "average" shotguns and priced as comparative bargains.

    A large-ish gun shop in the area, as well, had a good-sized rack of rifle bargains in the center of the shop. Often, they'd have the most amazing deals just laying there. Lots of consignments, the rest used. Some were quite old, some in poor shape, but most were fair deals. Occasionally, a stellar bargain could be found. Should have jumped on a Winchester Trapper .44mag lever-action rifle ($395) at the time, but didn't. Saw a couple of decent M1 Carbine rifles as well, USGI and in good condition. Lots of bolt-action stuff that wouldn't pass muster on the "new" rack behind the counters. But this is where many of the best deals in the shop were ... out there on the "bargain/used" rack.
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    Member Array rugerdude12's Avatar
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    The Ruger American is a GREAT rifle. Very accurate and very affordable and certainly not junk. None of the guns you list are junk and that is the typical going price for them. Of the 3 I personally would get the American, but I'm also partial to Rugers
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    I have shot the Remington 783 - My best guess on the very reasonable price would be CNC precision machining radically cutting down man/machine labor hours and the fact that an injected molded synthetic stock is able to shave even more $$$ off the bottom line.

    The one that I got to shoot was not mine and I thought the trigger was set a little too heavy & I would have adjusted it about 2 LBS lighter were it my rifle.
    The bolt was smooth but a bit overly stiff to close but, otherwise I thought it was a very nice rifle.
    I actually really like the lines of the stock...very nicely designed.
    I would buy one.

    The Ruger American and the Savage I have never handled or shot.
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    Distinguished Member Array Eric357's Avatar
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    They all looked like decent guns for the price. CCW9mm, they have a used section that I always check out. They had a used Rem 7600 synthetic for $459.It looked like it was in decent shape. Just window shopping right now.

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    Ex Member Array Longstreet's Avatar
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    Some of the best deals on guns are the "ugly ducklings." If you truly don't care that it's not the latest, "tactical" super gun, quality rifles, and handguns, can be had for a very reasonable price.
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    VIP Member Array LimaCharlie's Avatar
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    Some of the new inexpensive rifles are not bad for hunting. The barrels, actions, and stocks are usually lighter so the felt recoil is higher. The barrels tend to heat more so they are accurate for a couple of shots while hunting; but not great for target shooting. The scopes on the combinations are usually not very good in my experience. I work the hunting sight in service for our gun club every year. I see a lot of the combinations being returned for bad scopes. One of the better rifle/scope combinations I have seen is the Savage with a Nikon scope, but then they are more expensive.
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    Distinguished Member Array Eric357's Avatar
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    Now they did have the Ruger American with a Nikon for $550.

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    VIP Member Array LimaCharlie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric357 View Post
    Now they did have the Ruger American with a Nikon for $550.
    That should make a good entry level hunting rifle.
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    Distinguished Member Array Eric357's Avatar
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    Unfortunately here in the great state of Illinois we can only hunt deer with shotguns.

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    VIP Member Array LimaCharlie's Avatar
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    I recently bought a discontinued CZ 550 American in .308 Winchester with a nice wood stock and a medium weight 24" barrel for $450. Then I added a $1,000 Vortex Viper PST FFP 6-24X50 scope to it for long range target shooting.
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    The neat thing is that advancements in materials and manufacturing processes can result in high-quality products for a lower price than we're used to seeing. Ruger has just about raised this as an art form... eons ago when they got heavily into investment casting, they came out with the GP100 revolver around the same time as S&W debuted the L frame. You can argue the aesthetics and perhaps the size, but Ruger beat the S&W price point substantially for a heavy-duty .357 - simply because the single largest cost component of the gun (the frame) was a near-net shape casting for the Ruger vs. a heavily machined forging for the S&W (and don't devolve this into a casting vs forging argument).

    Several year later, Ruger moved to an engineered "plastic" trigger housing for the venerable 10/22. The faithful cried "heresy" and the price of pre-plastic 10/22s spiked for a bit, but guess what - the "plastic" trigger groups hold tighter tolerances on the location of the various through-pins (e.g., trigger pin and hammer pin) than the aluminum does, resulting in more consistency in triggers from gun to gun. The aftermarket (like Kidd) has embraced the new parts enthusiastically. And the cost to manufacture the trigger housing has dropped, allowing Ruger to hold a tighter line on the price of the gun.

    Add to these improvements a better understanding of the dynamics of the barrel and action when the cartridge goes 'bang' - and you have Ruger embedding action-mounting "pillars" in their synthetic stocks for the American which would be prohibitively expensive in a wood-stocked gun. This is probably a more useful improvement than the BOSS system offered by Winchester and Browning, in terms of practical accuracy per dollar.

    I don't want to come off as a Ruger fanboy; I have a number of Ruger guns, but I'm just using them as an example of how improved materials and manufacturing processes can result in better products at a lower price. Other gun makers have similar claims. I'll still choose a Kimber 84 with fine walnut and blued steel over a Ruger American IF my wallet allowed, but if you subtract out the panache and pride of ownership factors, the current offering of "affordable" guns from the American makers represents really good value.
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    VIP Member Array LimaCharlie's Avatar
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    My other target/varmint rifle is a Ruger M77 MkII Target rifle with a 26" bull barrel in .243 Winchester with a Vortex scope.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric357 View Post
    Ok guys, I know I'm probably opening a huge can of worms here but I'm curious. Okay first the only centerfire rifle I own is my Marlin 336ss 30/30 that I have owned for about 9 years. It was my dream rifle for a long time. As you know from other threads I'm just looking around to see whats out there. Most bolt guns that have always interested me have been Rem 700 series, Win model 70 (feather weight is a beautiful gun), Browning , and such guns. Recently even the Ruger gunsite scout sparked my interest. Well tonight we had to take an elderly lady to the doctor. While my wife was there with here I decided to drive over to Scheels and just browse a bit. Mixed amidst the more traditional rifles and "tactical" models were a whole mess of "bargain" rifles. Now these are rifles that normally I don't look at due to I really don't care for black synthetic stocks. Some of these prices were unbelievable to me.. I'll list some of the guns in a minute. But my question is what gives. How can these guns be that much cheaper than other guns by some of the same makers. Are these guns just absolute junk? Or are they great deals?


    Ruger American rifle= $399
    Rem 783=$299
    Savage axis with scope=$339.
    The Ruger American is priced ok but not great if Matte Black steel barrel, good price if S.S.

    Savage Axis price is ok but not great unless it is an XP

    These are average and fair prices for most stocking dealers.

    The Remington 783 is a very good price. If new, I'd grab it in any caliber or finish.
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    Distinguished Member Array Eric357's Avatar
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    I think the Rem 700 bdl with the iron sites and hood on the front site is one of the most beautiful guns ever made.

    700bdl-prod.jpg

    But I'm thinking one of these other guns might be a good gun for the kids. The older girls 15 and 17 been telling me we need a bolt action. I want to keep them interested in firearms even though we cant hunt with them here.
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