Help building an AR Pistol

This is a discussion on Help building an AR Pistol within the Defensive Rifles & Shotgun Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Hey guys, i'll try to keep this straightforward. i want quality, not an entry level. From reading i guess i would prefer hammer forged barrel, ...

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Thread: Help building an AR Pistol

  1. #1
    Distinguished Member Array DingBat's Avatar
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    Help building an AR Pistol

    Hey guys,

    i'll try to keep this straightforward. i want quality, not an entry level. From reading i guess i would prefer hammer forged barrel, but wil accept anything chrome lined of good quality. i am looking for a 11.5 or 12.5 barrel, 1/2-28 threaded. it will wear a suppressor, maybe not exclusively, but a good bit of the time. i want the rest of the "pistol" to be of high quality, but don't want to pay for gimmicks. i am thinking long-term and longevity. this will be a gun i shoot fairly regularly, and intend to heir to my kids, i am willing to pay to get the good stuff.

    I've tentatively decided to use the following:

    LOWER:
    Pistol (5.56) Lower w/ Enhanced Kit [STLC450-EBT] - $370.00 : Spikes Tactical

    i agree spikes marketing is pretty tacky, but everything i read is that they make a good product despite it, and their "Enhanced Kit", primarily their NB trigger pack gets good reviews. i may buy as a separate lower and kit and assemble myself, but for saving a few bucks i may not and let the pros build it. they seem to have a decent availability, i'm ok with the $$$ figure, and i can live with the "tacti-cool spider" logo.

    anyone have any suggestions otherwise? BCM lowers seem harder to get, same with Colt, i was looking at MODEL 1 SALES, but haven't found much info either way. especially ones serialized as pistols. and i am unsure of "MULTI" and my legalities. i prefer one already serialized pistol just for simplicity sake.

    UPPER:
    so far i am leaning heavily towards...

    BCM 12.5" Upper Receiver Group

    it's in stock, i'm happy with $$$, seems to be a great product, Chrome lined, i like this KINO CONFIG. even if i'm unfamiliar, i like the concept.

    again, MODEL 1 SALES had a similar, but i've seen mixed reviews, more bad than good about their uppers, so far as i can find, you can't buy SBR length uppers from Colt, this true? again, any other suggestions?

    My biggest dilemna is concerning the BCG.

    i am fairly certain i want a Chrome BCG, or maybe even a NB BCG. i would even consider Titanium, if it's worth it.

    one issue is availability, BCM says out of stock on Chrome BCG's, haven't had much luck anywhere ese, except here, and i can find precisely ZERO info about these guys, even AR15.com has next to nothing about this outfit, price is right, which tells me it's no good, thoughts?

    Givati Company USA AR 15 Chrome Bolt Carrier Group Complete.

    so this leads into, is an all chrome BCG worth it? or should i just get a chrome bolt? how about NB? even Titanium. i know we got some serious AR users on here, and if you were building the nicest AR you could, on your budget, what kind of BCG would you run, and from whom?

    yes, maybe i should join and post on AR15.com, but ya'll are so much friendlier and nicer and i just folks on here.

    thoughts? advice?
    Beans, Bullets, and Bandages. The only thing better than being ready is not having to use it!

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  3. #2
    VIP Member Array Rob99VMI04's Avatar
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    I did mine from A PSA lower and parts kit.

    I like the WMD NIBx http://www.wmdguns.com/products.php carriers seem pretty solid, runs great and supper easy to clean.

    I'm not sold on the reliability of the standard over the chrome or NIBx carriers.

    I just like having a silver carrier because it is so much easier to clean.
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    “Are you a thermometer or a thermostat, do you reflect or become what is happening in the room or do you change the atmosphere, reset the temperature when you come into the room”?--Chuck Swindoll

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    Distinguished Member Array Exacto's Avatar
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    PSA has some cold hammer forged uppers on sale, I think FN supplies their barrels. Daniel Defense for a CHFB as well. Wilson Combat has some good deals on very good BCGs.
    DingBat likes this.
    Let your plans be dark and impenetrable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunder bolt...... Sun Tzu.

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  5. #4
    VIP Member Array Rob99VMI04's Avatar
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    Are you piecing this together or are you going to buy a lower and an upper and just push the two pins?
    “Are you a thermometer or a thermostat, do you reflect or become what is happening in the room or do you change the atmosphere, reset the temperature when you come into the room”?--Chuck Swindoll

    Its not about guns...Its about Freedom!

  6. #5
    Distinguished Member Array DingBat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob99VMI04 View Post
    I did mine from A PSA lower and parts kit.

    I like the WMD NIBx WMD Guns: Gun Coating and Firearm Coating carriers seem pretty solid, runs great and supper easy to clean.

    I'm not sold on the reliability of the standard over the chrome or NIBx carriers.

    I just like having a silver carrier because it is so much easier to clean.
    oh, i do like that, good price, with a hammer too!

    one more question, i've heard you should get a Full Auto BCG if possible, why?
    Beans, Bullets, and Bandages. The only thing better than being ready is not having to use it!

  7. #6
    Distinguished Member Array DingBat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob99VMI04 View Post
    Are you piecing this together or are you going to buy a lower and an upper and just push the two pins?
    i don't feel experienced enough to assemble most of the upper, i want a pinned gas block, and i am not comfortable doing the barrel/receiver assembly and don't want to install the front sight either.

    Otherwise i don't actually care, if i can save a ton of money and still ensure all pieces work harmoniously, i am fine doing the work, if $$$ is basically a wash, i would just as soon have the pros build it, but not really much of a concern except i figure i'll buy a mostly complete upper.
    Beans, Bullets, and Bandages. The only thing better than being ready is not having to use it!

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    Senior Member Array CR Williams's Avatar
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    In curiosity, why 12.5" barrel length? Most I see are 10.5 or 11.5, with 10.5 the sweet spot for shortest with reliable function as I understand it.

    This one might be of interest to you:

    M4 TIER ONE PDW/PISTOL UPPER UNIT
    My cats support the Second Amendment.

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    "Oh, bother," said Pooh as he rocked another mag into the 556R...

  9. #8
    Distinguished Member Array DingBat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CR Williams View Post
    In curiosity, why 12.5" barrel length? Most I see are 10.5 or 11.5, with 10.5 the sweet spot for shortest with reliable function as I understand it.

    This one might be of interest to you:

    M4 TIER ONE PDW/PISTOL UPPER UNIT
    honestly? mostly this article. I've read and researched a ton about barrel legnths as i have been agonizing over this for some time. (those who may remember; i have dropped the PS90 idea in favor of this prposed AR15 project) and these charts show that with M855 ammo from a 10.5 to a 13 barrel the velocity change is effectively "flat". BUT i am hoping other, lighter bullets will gain from the added length, i am not worried about the gun being 2 inches longer, and lastly, the drop in pressure for the suppressor seems a very valid point, and a 10.5 barrel is over 10k PSI, and the 12.5 is under 10k PSI, so that seems a goodness thing.
    Beans, Bullets, and Bandages. The only thing better than being ready is not having to use it!

  10. #9
    VIP Member Array Rob99VMI04's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DingBat View Post
    oh, i do like that, good price, with a hammer too!

    one more question, i've heard you should get a Full Auto BCG if possible, why?
    More mass on the M16 carrier. Help slow the dwell time down a little.
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    “Are you a thermometer or a thermostat, do you reflect or become what is happening in the room or do you change the atmosphere, reset the temperature when you come into the room”?--Chuck Swindoll

    Its not about guns...Its about Freedom!

  11. #10
    Distinguished Member Array DingBat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob99VMI04 View Post
    More mass on the M16 carrier.
    forgive my persitant ignorance, but what does the increase in mass improve? my intuition says that would increase the recoil pulse, increase wear and tear. does it help with timing of short barrelled uppers???
    Beans, Bullets, and Bandages. The only thing better than being ready is not having to use it!

  12. #11
    VIP Member Array Rob99VMI04's Avatar
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    Help slow down your dwell time, your gun will cycle better....Also the M16 carrier has a fully protected firing pin.

    I had a big issue with my recent pistol build and dwell time... it was so much gas it was outcycling the magazine. Used a Novesk KX3 to help slow it down..right now I'm running a H2 buffer, it runs great. IF it chokes again, I'm dropping in an H3.

    You got to remember AR 15 are already over gased...using a pistol gas system is WAAAAAAAAYYY over gasing it. Some folks try PIGTail gas tubes http://vtsupply.com/phase-5-ar15-m16...ube-ar-15.html

    YUCK!

    I would rather a PIG, and an H3 and an M16 carrier way more expensive but better parts.
    DingBat likes this.
    “Are you a thermometer or a thermostat, do you reflect or become what is happening in the room or do you change the atmosphere, reset the temperature when you come into the room”?--Chuck Swindoll

    Its not about guns...Its about Freedom!

  13. #12
    Senior Member Array CR Williams's Avatar
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    Bolt carrier groups here:

    Firearm Accessories - AR15/M4 Parts & Accessories - AR15/M4 Bolts, Bolt Carriers & Accessories - Botach

    The Fail-Zero BCGs are the same price and a known quantity.
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    "Oh, bother," said Pooh as he rocked another mag into the 556R...

  14. #13
    Distinguished Member Array DingBat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob99VMI04 View Post
    Help slow down your dwell time, your gun will cycle better....Also the M16 carrier has a fully protected firing pin.

    I had a big issue with my recent pistol build and dwell time... it was so much gas it was outcycling the magazine. Used a Novesk KX3 to help slow it down..right now I'm running a H2 buffer, it runs great. IF it chokes again, I'm dropping in an H3.

    You got to remember AR 15 are already over gased...using a pistol gas system is WAAAAAAAAYYY over gasing it. Some folks try PIGTail gas tubes Phase 5 AR15/M16 Pistol Pigtail Gas Tube AR-15

    YUCK!

    I would rather a PIG, and an H3 and an M16 carrier way more expensive but better parts.
    so i won't be running a PIG because it will be wearing a suppressor most of the time, so now we're talking even more pressure, dirt, and debris, right? so i am liking the M16 WMD NiB-X carrier you recommended. and the H2 buffer makes sense, might just order all buffer sizes and experiment, anything else i should consider?
    Beans, Bullets, and Bandages. The only thing better than being ready is not having to use it!

  15. #14
    VIP Member Array Rob99VMI04's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DingBat View Post
    so i won't be running a PIG because it will be wearing a suppressor most of the time, so now we're talking even more pressure, dirt, and debris, right? so i am liking the M16 WMD NiB-X carrier you recommended. and the H2 buffer makes sense, might just order all buffer sizes and experiment, anything else i should consider?
    Well if your going over 10.5 inches you don't have to worry about all the Baffle erosion that a 7.5 inch barrel does on a can.

    I would say though to help you reduce the erosion on your first baffle on your can, I would do a muzzlebrake and NOT a Flash hider. that way your brake will act as some what of a buffer and help protect the first baffle in your can.

    Here is a Great example of what I'm talking about.

    http://www.silencertalk.com/forum/vi...771&hilit=read
    DingBat likes this.
    “Are you a thermometer or a thermostat, do you reflect or become what is happening in the room or do you change the atmosphere, reset the temperature when you come into the room”?--Chuck Swindoll

    Its not about guns...Its about Freedom!

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