I need some opinions on a rifle...

I need some opinions on a rifle...

This is a discussion on I need some opinions on a rifle... within the Defensive Rifles & Shotgun Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; I've got an idea that may or may not have some merit and I would like to discuss it. I am wanting build a bolt ...

View Poll Results: .460 Bolt Action. Good idea or not?

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  • The idea has merit.

    14 53.85%
  • Not so sure,maybe...maybe not.

    4 15.38%
  • Waste of time and effort.

    8 30.77%
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Thread: I need some opinions on a rifle...

  1. #1
    Senior Moderator
    Array HotGuns's Avatar
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    I need some opinions on a rifle...

    I've got an idea that may or may not have some merit and I would like to discuss it.

    I am wanting build a bolt action rifle that is chambered in .460 caliber. I'd like to cut the barrel to 16" and thread it for a suppressor.

    Here's the idea.

    One could shoot the smoking hot .460 cartridge from it, shoot a .454 Casull, and if they feel the need for quiet, they can shoot an off the shelf .45 Colt that is already subsonic. Hornady has a .45 Colt load that is pushing 1000 FPS, rather warm for a .45 Colt, but still subsonic.

    A friend of mine that is a shooter was taking about some of the suppressed offerings out there and he was disappointed that nearly all of them were either hard to get or had to be handloaded down to be subsonic.

    The idea behind the .460 is so that one can use off the shelf ammo that will kill a pig or a deer out to a 100 yards easy. Since the Hornady stuff is made to expand at handgun velocities, it should be great when it comes to expansion.
    I know of some game wardens that use subsonic .44's to cull deer, so this should be an effective caliber.

    My hog hunting buddies like the idea too of using off the shelf ammo for suppressed hunting on pigs.

    So let me hear your thoughts and ideas. Think its worth doing?
    Aceoky likes this.
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  2. #2
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    How would the velocities of the .45lc, .454, and .460 out of your 16" barrel compare with the rounds being fired from the barrel lengths offered for the S&W x-frame?

    Any idea on how successful the .460 has been for S&W to begin with? I would think with a serial number guide, you could get a general idea for the numbers made, and therefor general demand for the caliber.

    One additional thought, that may not factor too much, all of those rounds are fairly expensive handgun rounds. Even .45lc is almost a buck a round last I checked.
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  3. #3
    Member Array Spalt's Avatar
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    Can you really improve on an off the shelf .308 loaded with subs and suppressed? You lose a lot of range going to a .45.

  4. #4
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    .308 subs don't expand like .45's do.
    Aceoky likes this.
    I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.


    AR. CHL Instr. 07/02 FFL
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  5. #5
    Member Array Spalt's Avatar
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    True enough, and I have seen no gell tests for .308 subs. Is the extra expansion of the .45 really needed over the sub .308 for hogs?

  6. #6
    Distinguished Member Array Brady's Avatar
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    Ya know, I got a birthday coming up...
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  7. #7
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    Sounds like a good idea to me but I'm not overly familiar with the terminal ballistics of any of those rounds.

    Which action do you plan to build on? How much of this are you going to do yourself? I know your in the biz but I don't know at what level. That sounds like quite a job for a garage level smith but maybe not so big a deal for someone with a decent machine shop.
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  8. #8
    VIP Member Array Kilowatt3's Avatar
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    Just speculating here, but I suspect you'll want to be VERY careful about the specs for your suppressor, unless you're going to remove it to shoot anything real hot! I'd guess that your run-of-the-mill .45 suppressor is designed for .45 ACP pressures. I'd be concerned that a .460 Magnum would blow it apart. Wouldn't be a cheap lesson!
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  9. #9
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    Which action do you plan to build on? How much of this are you going to do yourself? I know your in the biz but I don't know at what level. That sounds like quite a job for a garage level smith but maybe not so big a deal for someone with a decent machine shop.
    Maybe a Savage 110 or a Remington 700. I am going to do all of it myself. I'm going to use a barrel blank, chamber it, cut it to length and thread it for a suppressor. What level? I've been building tools for 35 years and maintaining a Nuclear Plant. Too me, gun smithing is "light duty" stuff. It just so happens that I have a machine shop in which to make all sorts of cool things to shoot.

    Just speculating here, but I suspect you'll want to be VERY careful about the specs for your suppressor, unless you're going to remove it to shoot anything real hot! I'd guess that your run-of-the-mill .45 suppressor is designed for .45 ACP pressures. I'd be concerned that a .460 Magnum would blow it apart. Wouldn't be a cheap lesson!
    That is a very valid concern. I've got a manufacturer sending me a can that he developed for the .50 Beowulf AR platform. Its smaller, shorter and much lighter than the typical .50 cans. It's also going to be rated for full power .50 Beowulf and can be used for anything up to that. That is what I plan to use. The can isn't even on the market yet, and probably wont be till around August or Sept. He sending it to me free-gratis, just to field test. That's the best part. It'll do double duty with a .500 Smith and Wesson bolt action that I am currently building. Although I don't plan on shooting full house ammo through it, it'll be nice to know that you can without fear of damaging the can...or your life.
    Aceoky likes this.
    I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.


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  10. #10
    Member Array Spalt's Avatar
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    Ballistics for the .458 SOCOM gives you a point of reference, but that caliber uses a 500+ grain bullet subsonic. I suppose a 300 grain bullet in .45 Colt is about right for subsonic use. The .308 subs use a 175 to 200 grain bullet. Perhaps a .357 caliber bullet at subsonic speeds? Then you would have a huge selection of ammo for the same chamber.

    This is a round about way to suggest that the .460 is well outside its ballistic envelope as a subsonic cartridge.

  11. #11
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    This is a round about way to suggest that the .460 is well outside its ballistic envelope as a subsonic cartridge
    Unless you stuff it with .45 Colt. The idea is to be able to use off the shelf ammo for subsonic stuff.
    Aceoky likes this.
    I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.


    AR. CHL Instr. 07/02 FFL
    Like custom guns and stuff? Check this out...
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  12. #12
    VIP Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    I like the idea. Especially in my location. We cannot use regular rifle calibers below the clare line. This could fill a void for a lot of hunters with the same restrictions...
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  13. #13
    Member Array Spalt's Avatar
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    I wonder what the proper twist would be? The difference between 1000 fps and 2000 fps is a big jump. There is a lot of data for bullet performance from the 44-40 and .45 Colt lever guns. As long as you stay at 100 yards, your project makes good sense. A heavy pistol bullet at 100 yards beats a lighter rifle bullet. Historically, it was useful to have shared ammo for rifle and pistol. A .460 in a rifle would be nifty. Not so much through a revolver, I would think.

    Still, I would research the .357 Ruger rifle and see if that does not extend your practical rifle range and still remain effective on hogs. You would not even hear a suppressed .38 Short.

  14. #14
    VIP Member Array Kilowatt3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HotGuns View Post
    ...I've got a manufacturer sending me a can that he developed for the .50 Beowulf AR platform. Its smaller, shorter and much lighter than the typical .50 cans. It's also going to be rated for full power .50 Beowulf and can be used for anything up to that. That is what I plan to use...

    Although I don't plan on shooting full house ammo through it, it'll be nice to know that you can without fear of damaging the can...or your life.
    Cool! Sounds like a good starting point.

    Keep in mind, though, that even the Beowulf is a considerably lower-pressure round than the .460. Be careful!
    Aceoky likes this.
    Regards,
    Jim
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  15. #15
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    As long as the pricing will be in the $250-300 range like the Hi-Point carbines ............I'm definitely in.

    In all seriousness, I think the idea has a lot of merit.
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