Trying to Choose an Optics

This is a discussion on Trying to Choose an Optics within the Defensive Rifles & Shotgun Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; simply put Ö. Iím trying to decide between an Aimpoint PRO or CompM4 and a 3x magnifier, or a 4x32 Browe Combat Optic <BCO> with ...

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    Senior Member Array zamboni's Avatar
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    Trying to Choose an Optics

    simply putÖ.
    Iím trying to decide between an Aimpoint PRO or CompM4 and a 3x magnifier, or a 4x32 Browe Combat Optic <BCO> with a horseshoe or chevron reticle?

    I know the Aimpoint setup would give me both CQ & distance options where as the 4x32 Browe-CO would be better suited for distance but with the Browe at CQ < how ever close one would like too define close quarters; once Iíd bring my firearm up into a readied position my 4-points of contact practice would kick-in so that 4x could be useful from say Ö.. maybe as close as 20yds/60í & beyond?

    Another thing I'm thinking is that with the Browe I couldn't co-witness my BUIS if I needed too?

    The Aimpoint PRO use the harder to find DL1/3N or 2L76 battery, the Comp4M uses a common AA battery but is the extra money worth it since thatís about the only advantage I can see between the cost difference of the two. While the Browe uses the 123A battery which is a little easer to find then the 1/3N & 2L76 battery.

    so about the final priceÖ..
    that of the Aimpoint combo with the 3x & PRO would be about $300. less then the M4 but either Aimpoint combo would be close in price to the BCO.

    Decisions Ö. Decisiones Ö. Resolutions Ö.. settlement of conclusions

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  3. #2
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    Array buckeye .45's Avatar
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    Can I ask why you aren't considering any of the fine 1-4x scopes on the market?
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    VIP Member Array jonconsiglio's Avatar
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    I no longer use Aimpoints with magnifiers. I don't hate them, I just don't gain what I thought I did in the past. I ran an ACOG TA31 4x32 for a few years and was able to use it in the shoot house as long as the reticle was illuminated enough. You just need to focus past the magnification and use it along the idea of an occluded red dot or bindon aiming concept. It's doable if practiced.

    I'm moving to lower powered variables and may eventually make them my primary optics, even on rifles like my 9" 300blk. Best of both worlds once enough time is spent learning the small details and differences over Aimpoints.
    Proven combat techniques may not be flashy and may require a bit more physical effort on the part of the shooter. Further, they may not win competition matches, but they will help ensure your survival in a shooting or gunfight on the street. ~Paul Howe

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    Senior Member Array zamboni's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonconsiglio View Post
    I no longer use Aimpoints with magnifiers. I don't hate them, I just don't gain what I thought I did in the past. I ran an ACOG TA31 4x32 for a few years and was able to use it in the shoot house as long as the reticle was illuminated enough. You just need to focus past the magnification and use it along the idea of an occluded red dot or bindon aiming concept. It's doable if practiced. I'm moving to lower powered variables and may eventually make them my primary optics, even on rifles like my 9" 300blk. Best of both worlds once enough time is spent learning the small details and differences over Aimpoints.
    Not a fan of Trijicons as I'm looking at the 4x32-BCO or also as you seem to be moving toward as posted the low/no powered magnification so I'm looking at the Aimpoint's 1x but I'm thinking too add a 3x also for longer range if needed instead of going with just a 4x only system. My thought is to have the 1x red dot which should cover most situations & a 3x magnifier if needed but as you said too a 4x is workable for CQ's that's why I'm looking for suggestive input before I commit on either system. I could get the 1x and if I feel the need add a 3x magnifier later? What are your thoughts?

    Quote Originally Posted by buckeye .45 View Post
    Can I ask why you aren't considering any of the fine 1-4x scopes on the market?
    Ummm ... I guess cuz I'm used to using the red dot style system as what I've been trained on using in the past but on that note what venerable 1x-4x scopes would you suggest I take a look at? I'm open to any suggestions. Also how would they work in low light environments and now that I think of it would they be co-vision BUIS & night vision comparable?

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    The Aimpoint COMP M4s is an incredible optic. You should give it some serious consideration.
    Buy it from Brownell's and if you don't like it for any reason, (even if you just don't like it) you can always return it for a "no questions asked" full refund.
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    Quote Originally Posted by zamboni View Post
    Not a fan of Trijicons as I'm looking at the 4x32-BCO or also as you seem to be moving toward as posted the low/no powered magnification so I'm looking at the Aimpoint's 1x but I'm thinking too add a 3x also for longer range if needed instead of going with just a 4x only system. My thought is to have the 1x red dot which should cover most situations & a 3x magnifier if needed but as you said too a 4x is workable for CQ's that's why I'm looking for suggestive input before I commit on either system. I could get the 1x and if I feel the need add a 3x magnifier later? What are your thoughts?



    Ummm ... I guess cuz I'm used to using the red dot style system as what I've been trained on using in the past but on that note what venerable 1x-4x scopes would you suggest I take a look at? I'm open to any suggestions. Also how would they work in low light environments and now that I think of it would they be co-vision BUIS & night vision comparable?
    Generally they are not NVG compatible, nor can they be co-witnessed with a BUIS due to length restrictions. I still keep a BUIS on my rifle, which remains folded down when the scope is mounted.

    I personally like the Leupold MarK AR 1.5-4x, and have one with the firedot SPR reticle, which has an illuminated dot for low light/CQB work.

    A little info on why I prefer this sight set up: As a Marine infantryman I had a 4X ACOG mounted on my A4, and began to see the usefulness of both the magnification for engaging targets at distance, as well as some sort of illuminated reticle that can utilize the Bindon Aiming concept at bad breath ranges. However, I thought the ACOG was a bit finnicky when it came to eye relief, and was a bit slower than a no or 1x magnified sight for CQB type work.

    For a while I was running an Aimpoint M3 on one of my M-4geries, and I think for HD only type work, a sight light that is hard to beat. It is fast, and adds minimal weight, and can be co-witnessed easily. However, once you start adding some distance to shots, the dot starts covering more and more of the target, there is no effective way to range a target using the reticle, and beyond about 200 yards, I would generally rather just have iron sights. I have never been a big fan of flip magnifiers, as they add significant weight to a rifle, and often don't allow room on a rifle for a BUIS.

    Which brings me to something like my 1.5-4, which I think combines the best of the two sights above. Switching between power settings is easy and can be done on the fly. I can use the lowest power with the illuminated dot on for HD type distances, or can go to full power for longer distance shots easily. The reticle can be used as a rudimentary BDC, allowing me to make longer shots than something like just a plain red dot. The Of all the 1-4xs I looked at the Leupold was the lightest (comparing to a Burris MTAC and Vortex), and smallest. You can also probably get a good 1-4x and mount for less than either of your other options if price is a factor.

    If I was looking for something for a rifle I planned on only using at ranges <200 yards, I would go with an Aimpoint, if I wanted something for just >50 yards, I would go with a 4x like the ACOG. For 0-600 yards, a 1-4x is my choice. Your intended use/purpose of the rifle should drive the decision IMHO.
    Just some thoughts for you to consider. If there is anything else I can help clear up, let me know.
    atctimmy and oldskeetshooter like this.
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  8. #7
    Member Array Spalt's Avatar
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    Take a look at the Primary Arms 1-6x scope the ACSS reticle. Do not own one but it strikes me as well designed.

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    Senior Member Array cn262's Avatar
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    You could always look at EOTech. I went to a LGS expecting to buy the Aimpoint, but after comparing that with the EOTech I found that I liked the wider field of view. My EXPS 3-0 is co-witnessed with my BUIS, is NVG compatible, and with the G33 magnifier gives you the best of both worlds. My model uses the CR123A batteries (more compact and longer lasting than AA, but also more expensive and not as common). I've found battery life to be good, but not the years you get from an Aimpoint.

    Anyway, something else to consider.

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    Member Array sammage's Avatar
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    Either Aimpoint will serve you well. Like Jon said, the magnifier with red dot isn't as flexible as a low powered variable. Another good choice would be a Leupold VX-R Patrol in 1.25-4 power. What ranges do you intend to shoot?

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    VIP Member Array 40Bob's Avatar
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    I have used everything from ACOGs, aimpoints, EOTECH, low power variables and low power fixed. I have settled on an Aimpoint Pro. If not that then my old weaver 2.5 with the German post reticule.
    My rifle and pistol are tools, I am the weapon. Go big or stay on the porch.

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    Senior Member Array zamboni's Avatar
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    My brother brought up the multi-powered scopes vs getting a red dot vs getting an ACOG too at dinner today.

    Then my one son said ďI like grandpaís red dot itís quick & easyĒ and his cousin agreed which is an Aimpoint but I donít remember which one he has.

    His younger brother, also my son; took a nice buck this season about Ö.. 150+yds-out with his granddadís Aimpoint & .308 rifle combo. He bagged the best deer out of 7 of us this seasonÖ..the little turd Ö. he's dadís pride though

    So my muddled plight continues: if I get a red dot it will be an Aimpoint M4 or most likely a PRO, if I deside on an ACOG Iím leaning towards the 4x32 Browe Combat Optic, but Iím now going to run too with the couple suggestions above and Iím going to look at a couple of muli-powered scopes before I buy.

    Some asked: "how far out will eye be using it"? about 10yds out too say 250yds. So keep those suggestions coming cuz Iím still shopping & welcome all your input.

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    I have run an EOTech w/ 3x magnifier on a flip-to-side mount for a good while now. I prefer the EOTech's reticle to other "red dot" sights, as the 1 MOA center dot is better (for me, anyway) for more precise shots while the big 'ol 65 MOA ring is about as fast as you can get for very close distances. With the magnifier (or really even without it - I had no trouble clearing the 250 and 300 yard targets on the qual course with no magnification) you should be able to cover everything within the ranges that you specified pretty easily. Those are the pros.

    Cons:

    Relatively heavy, relatively long/cumbersome.
    Not cheap (but on par with your other options listed).
    Not as long battery life as the newest Aimpoints (but still pretty darned good).

    All that said - the Leupold 1.5-4x with the illuminated dot is an outstanding options as well, being lighter and cheaper and almost as versatile, with just a little more magnification if you ever needed it. That will go on my next AR. :)
    atctimmy likes this.
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    Distinguished Member Array Jaeger's Avatar
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    I like the ACOG with a 3.5 or 4. I want pinpoint accuracy out to 400 yds, and with a 3.5 ACOG if I can see the target I can nail it (this is going to be less than 400 yds). Obviously it isn't as good close, but as John said it'll work where a traditional scope won't. For me it's a compromise that favors distance, which is what I want. I also run longer, heavy, match grade barrels which swing poorly, so for me a zero magnification doesn't make sense.

    Reticles are preference. I'm used to a horseshoe, and IMO it's superior for man sized targets as it lets me range them easier. I usually shoot at man sized silhouettes, and often I don't mark the range when I'm setting up so I have to guess through the ACOG. I'm pretty good at it, and rarely is my first shot a flyer.

    I don't have a rifle for close quarters, but if I ever decide I need one I know who to ask about it.
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    Senior Member Array munch520's Avatar
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    I went down the 3x + Aimpoint magnifier road and wasn't a fan. At zoom, I want a usable reticle (not just a dot) so I can have a reference point for holds. And for the same price, that can be found in a fixed 4x or in a variable.

    With the 1-4, 1-5, 1-6, etc. variables on the market today, I feel that ACOGs really limit you. A true 1x variable can also be cowitnessed with irons.

    I was digging Leupold's line, and now I'm on to a Weaver 1-5x24 with CIRT illuminated reticle. Really liking this so far
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    Senior Member Array zamboni's Avatar
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    OK ….so

    I was first contemplating an Aimpoint PRO & 3x magnifier which has prompt suggestions {more then once} …. “why not look at a 1-to-whateverX scope instead”? “because that just may be a better choice for you at ranges from close up & personal too about 300yds out” then a “red dot 3xmag” setup…..

    So OK I’m listening….

    I’m now checking out the Leupold VX-R patrol 1.25-4x20mm and their MarK AR MOD 1.5-4x20mm Firedot-G-SPR (illuminated) vs the Vortex Viper PST 1-4x24 Riflescope MOA capped vs the Weaver Tactical 1-5x24 CIRT.

    I’m not sure about the Weaver because it seems to me too adjust in MOA and sight in MIL/MRAD which seems kind ah weird to me too complicate doing the zeroing-math in MOA & distance in MIL/MRAD but its batteries can be found very readily & they don’t cost much & in a pinch they can be taken out of a lot of things that use them and it has both a red or green reticle for you too choose from. Also I do like the way the center dot & hash marks are calibrated to an IDPA target’s silhouette pattern at different ranges which I consider quite nifty.

    Then too I’d also rather have a “True 1x scope” to co-witness my BUIS, if necessary if possible, through so that may eliminate the Leupold so I guess I’m starting to lean more towards the Vortex ah little less expensive or the Weaver which is pricy though as I'm a bit short to get a Weaver today, have to fatin up my piggy bank a bit but you get what you pay for and I only want to buy once….. and I can still be swayed either way or into something else I haven’t heard about yet.

    Now too I guess I need to bother with mount rings too.

    This BRD is too intense for the faint of heart let alone shallow pockets & it’s really aggravating my gastric acid reflux…… burp

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