Importance of real world shooting.

This is a discussion on Importance of real world shooting. within the Defensive Rifles & Shotgun Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; As a few of you know I've extended my home shooting range to 325 yards. It's a big change from boring old 100 yard shooting. ...

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  1. #1
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    Importance of real world shooting.

    As a few of you know I've extended my home shooting range to 325 yards. It's a big change from boring old 100 yard shooting.

    Some things I'm learning about are wind doping and drop. I've shot to 300 a couple other times in my life but never with any consistency. Now I'm doing it every day and really dialing things in.

    Today I shot a group out of my .308 that was pretty nice.

    What I'm learning though is that bullet drop programs (like Nikon spot on) aren't worth a hill of beans. If you want to know where the bullet hits you gotta put in the time.

    My drop charts are telling me to expect about 15 to 18 inches of drop at 325 from my .223 and .308. What I'm getting in the real world is about 20 inches of drop with the .308 and about 22 inches with the .223.

    The real world is always different.

    100 yard zero with .308:



    325 yard target showing the drop. Point of aim is the orange and black paint, not the sticker.



    Last is the measurement of the 3 shot group at 325. 1.87" with a Remington 700 BDL. 165 grain core locks over H4895.

    Mark Twain:
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    patriot and who isn't. Its function is to obey orders, not originate them.

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    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
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    You are correct. It can vary with bullet design, velocity, sea leve, and even temperature.

    I also agree with you, that you have to pay your dues and spend some time on the range.
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    Wow, 20" drop with 308 at 3 when zero'd for 100? You're starting low with the 100 yrd zero, that's gonna be magnified out at 300 even more. But from shooting a LOT of 308 iron sighted with the M1a's using 147 grain nato surplus with a 100 yrd zero, the bullet drop is only 13" at 300. Two clicks at 200 [ 4" ] and another 3 clicks at 300 for another 9" of drop. That's a far cry from 20". Interesting, I think it's got to do with your 100 zero being low to begin with.

    Nice group, one day you should try irons at that range if you haven't already. Did I mention nice group?
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    Have you checked your 700 against the latest recall Timmy?

    Must be nice to have a 325 yard range out the back door.
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    VIP Member Array PAcanis's Avatar
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    Nice shootin'.
    That seems like a lot of drop to me, too. What velocity are your loads?
    I've been thinking of extending my range to 175, which really only involves moving my bench, but shooting .22s helps me work on trajectory, windage, breathing, stopping my heartbeat and all that. I've found that if I shoot four shots while the sun is shining and it goes behing a cloud I should wait for it to reappear or I'm going to shoot a flier. I would really like to get into some serious distance shooting with big calibers.
    Did you post a pic of your rifle here?
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    Quote Originally Posted by AzQkr View Post
    I think it's got to do with your 100 zero being low to begin with.

    Nice group, one day you should try irons at that range if you haven't already. Did I mention nice group?
    I agree with the low zero affecting things but this rifle was zeroed for a different load and that's just where this load was at. Also this load isn't very hot but I don't have a chrono so I'm not too sure what it is in the real world.

    The irons on my BDL are terrible and obscure too much of the target at distance. I'll try my AR with Irons soon though.

    Lastly, thanks for the compliment.

    Quote Originally Posted by buckeye .45 View Post
    Have you checked your 700 against the latest recall Timmy?

    Must be nice to have a 325 yard range out the back door.
    Nope. I've had it about 12 years and I haven't had any problems with it. The trigger is OK but I eventually plan on putting a Timney in it. Just one more thing to spend money on.

    Quote Originally Posted by PAcanis View Post
    Nice shootin'.
    That seems like a lot of drop to me, too. What velocity are your loads?
    I don't know. I don't have a chrono. They're not too hot though, maybe 2600 fps? They shoot great and crush whitetails so I haven't really messed with them too much.

    Quote Originally Posted by PAcanis View Post
    Did you post a pic of your rifle here?
    It's just a basic 700 BDL with nothing special about it. It even has the see through rings so I can use irons when I'm in thick brush. It's a hunting gun 1st and range gun 2nd.
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    Mark Twain:
    The government is merely a servant -- merely a temporary servant; it cannot be its prerogative to determine what is right and what is wrong, and decide who is a
    patriot and who isn't. Its function is to obey orders, not originate them.

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    Senior Member Array Devilsclaw's Avatar
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    Shooting prairie dogs is the best practice in this game. If you really want to have some fun, try an 1873 Trapdoor Springfield out to 400+ yrds. Fun hitting a water jug at those distances with a piece of history.
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    Are you running factory ammo? If so, I can give you the ballistic data for it.

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    Indeed...all .308s are not created equal. In order to be effective, bullet drop calculators need data - velocity and bullet weight being the most important (but certainly not the ONLY) factors. If you don't know your velocity, you can't expect to get good info from the calculator. GIGO. :)
    A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands - love a woman, build a house, change his son's diaper - his hands remember the rifle.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OPFOR View Post
    Indeed...all .308s are not created equal. In order to be effective, bullet drop calculators need data - velocity and bullet weight being the most important (but certainly not the ONLY) factors. If you don't know your velocity, you can't expect to get good info from the calculator. GIGO. :)
    My birthday is in July. If you want you could get me a spiffy new chrono. : )
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    Mark Twain:
    The government is merely a servant -- merely a temporary servant; it cannot be its prerogative to determine what is right and what is wrong, and decide who is a
    patriot and who isn't. Its function is to obey orders, not originate them.

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    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
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    Tim, I really agree with OPFOR( what am I saying ?!! ), a chrono is as important to this or any kind of shooting as anything else in the line of components, maybe more so.

    In fact, I have found it to be totally invaluable. It can be a real eye opener.
    When I work a load up from the book , I have found many times I'm not where I thought I would be.
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    Timmy, if you can, bring a thermometer with you when you shoot or mount one on your bench so it's always there. Note the temp in your shooting log when you're working on serious shooting such as you're reporting on here. Barometric pressure and humidity will alter a given load's time of flight, but temperature will have an effect on a given load's initial velocity which may not be negligible. And velocity, of course, will alter the bullet drop. When you're reaching out past hailing distance, these little details start to matter more!
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    Quote Originally Posted by gasmitty View Post
    Timmy, if you can, bring a thermometer with you when you shoot or mount one on your bench so it's always there. Note the temp in your shooting log when you're working on serious shooting such as you're reporting on here. Barometric pressure and humidity will alter a given load's time of flight, but temperature will have an effect on a given load's initial velocity which may not be negligible. And velocity, of course, will alter the bullet drop. When you're reaching out past hailing distance, these little details start to matter more!
    It sure is a lot to take in. I can hammer that silhouette target all day but really dialing it in is tougher than I thought it would be.
    Mark Twain:
    The government is merely a servant -- merely a temporary servant; it cannot be its prerogative to determine what is right and what is wrong, and decide who is a
    patriot and who isn't. Its function is to obey orders, not originate them.

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    Timmy, I agree with the other posts about your zero greatly affecting your longer range shooting. Have you looked at Nikon's Spot On Ballistic Program, I mean really looked at it? I have used it in training situation's to have guy's new to the BDC reticle hit 4 inch jars of Tannerite at 600 yards using factory AR's/Bolt rifles. The big thing with any program is the results are only going to be as good as the data you enter. Knowing the MV is huge, not just what is on the ammo box. Measuring the scope height mid-bore to mid-scope is also valuable. Check out the results when this info is entered correctly. You can also enter atmospheric conditions as well. It's free to use on line and there are app's you can buy for the Android and iphone/tablet's.Even if you don't want to use it for the BDC there is a lot of info that can be learned about whatever scope/ammo you are using. Let me know if you have any question's Timmy.
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    You will also find that loads that look like the magic answer to the shooting gods look like crap at 300. I did that when I fired my 150 grain Noslers, which produced quarter-size groups at 100 yards, scattered all over the target at 300. That's when I upgraded to the Sierra 165 grain SPBT which did much, much better at all ranges I would shoot.
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