Going to look at two Bushmasters - input needed

[cphilip]

Choice #1 - E2S A1 M4 Type Carbine - $815

Choice #2 - E2SLE O.R.C. (Optics Ready Carbine) - $869

Both prices before 5% sales tax, but no additional FFL fee as it's local sale from FFL shop to me. Face to face.

Kind of leaning to Choice 1 because of carry handle and A1 sight that is on it and I do not think I am going Optics of any kind and Choice 2 would sort of force me that way immediately from what I can see. I assume the LE in the model is Law Enforcement but I assume thats for the optics ready upper only. I don't see much besides the mounts on top for optics different in either of the specs.

They both have 6 position stock, Forward Assist Brass Deflector, 16" Crome Lined M4 barrel, Birdcage flash suppressor, 30 round Mag, Case and Sling. Both Matte Black finish. Seem identical except sights to me.

What say you on these two and the price ranges?

[DefensiveCarry.com]

[rocky]

I like the option of optics mounting. You could put a scope or dot on or off. But then you would probably want a Iron rear sight too. Carry handle optic mounts are ackward IMO.

[SIXTO]

I'd go with #2 as well, it gives you more options. If you want a carry handle, you can buy one to mount on the upper for 50-60 dollars.

If you are absolute that you dont want any sort of optics #1 would be OK. There are options for mounting on a #1 as well.

[srfl]

I saw the ORC today at the Bushmaster booth at the SHOT Show.

If you know that you won't need or want any backup iron sights at all, then the ORC is for you since this carbine has no front sight at all; the gas block portion of the front-sight base is all that exists; it's as if someone applied a hacksaw to the FSB and took out the sight and left the gas block. Further, there is no Picatinny rail where the front sight existed; it's smooth so you can't mount a flip-up or fixed front (backup) sight that attaches using a Picatinny rail.

As such, if you go with #2 and you want to mount iron sights, you might have to remove the gas block and replace it with flip-up front-sight/gas block assembly like the beautifully made VLTOR or KAC assemblies. I went to VLTOR too today...they have outstanding stuff.

[SIXTO]

I answered a little to quick.... #1 would be my choice. You can do much more with it than the orc

[rocky]

Gotta agree with Sixto, I thought the ORC would have irons on it of some sort. Why not am M4 flat top A3 type AR? Irons are nice, optics options are even better.
The beauty of the AR is the modular design. I can put a scope on top and shoot distance, put a red dot and shoot action or shoot irons .
The ORC seems like a poor design IMO.

[cphilip]

Here are some stock online photo's I found. Not sure they acurate. But it appears correct that the ORC does not have any front sight...

Option 1 A2




Option 2 (ORC)

[srfl]

...yes, #2 is the ORC and yes, it has NO iron sights....nada, zilch, zippo.

If I were Bushmaster, I'd machine a Picatinny rail atop that baby's rear-end smooth gas block...but that's just me.

[rocky]

BTW, only reason I suggest the 3rd option is my buddy bought a carry handle Bushie. Only later to sell the upper and buy a flattop upper to replace it.
he said he never wanted optics on the original gun, but you never know till ya try it.

[srfl]

Agree with Rocky....I'd just get an "A3" Bushy (removable handle)....at least you'll have a front-sight base and can later get a back-up rear sight if needed/wanted if you do elect to go to optics in the distant future.

[cphilip]

Good advice.... I will now start looking for a Flat top AND a detachable Carry handle model then. And get detachable sights. Thanks guys. Thats the best suggestion yet I think. Although I am going to have to consider overall budget. The Flat Top option is going to run me almost $200 more. So I may have to forgo that and stick to budget. I suppose I should do some looking as to what a new upper will run me later and think hard on that. But if I want to stay to budget, option 1 with some extra Magazines is the way to go.

[SIXTO]

With an AR, its a lot easier to remove the front sight than it is to add one.

[retsupt99]

Here are some stock online photo's I found. Not sure they acurate. But it appears correct that the ORC does not have any front sight...

Option 1 A2

This is what I bought about 6 weeks ago...with an EO Tech Holographic Scope...sweet...

ret

[cphilip]

I decided to go with option 1 and a gaggle of Mags and Ammo. The other choice was going to put me at budget top with none of that. So I will go ahead and live with the A2 type top end. Probably all I need anyway. Surely needed more mags and ammo! So I am in budget with 3 more mags (2-30's and 1-40 round) some bits and bobs and money enough to buy 500 rounds. And I guess will be a tad over budget once I out together a short spare parts list and a couple of Mag rebuilt kits too. But should not be over by a lot.

[SIXTO]

Good choice, I'm sure you'll be happy with it. FWIW, you can get mounts for optic that mount on top of the carry handle, or get a scout type mount.

Forget about all the optics talk, your on the right track with buying mags ammo and spare parts. Now get out there and enjoy learning to use your new toy.