Something I am thinking about doing - Page 2

Something I am thinking about doing

This is a discussion on Something I am thinking about doing within the Defensive Rifles & Shotgun Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Originally Posted by ccm-tim For whatever its worth, my SHTF rifle is a SA M1A. I have a Shepherd scope and an Aimpoint that are ...

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Thread: Something I am thinking about doing

  1. #16
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    Cool .308 Kind of Guy? MY Kind of Guy! Great minds think alike.

    Quote Originally Posted by ccm-tim
    For whatever its worth, my SHTF rifle is a SA M1A. I have a Shepherd scope and an Aimpoint that are both on QR rings. Pretty easy to swap them out. I use a 3-point sling with the rifle which makes the extra weight a little easier to handle. I was thinking of getting an AR until I read Boston's Gun Bible. Since then, I've become a .308 kind of guy.
    Yeah, I've got an M1A with a Shepherd scope as well. It's my reach out and touch 'em gun and although it does have see thru scope mounts, it's not really a CQB lightweight carbine. But with any .308 that's gotta be one of the tradeoffs. Still, I'm thinking that to fill that CQB role I'll pick up an M1A SOCOM 16 and put an AimPoint or maybe an ACOG sight on it. It's still no lightweight, but it's be easier (and shorter) than hauling the big boy around. The SOCOM would have more applications I'm thinking and best of all, the two rifles use the same mags!
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.


  2. #17
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    Question Collector or Accumulator?

    Quote Originally Posted by Euclidean
    I have said before that in 5 years I'll own a dozen guns and I think I'm right. One of the reasons I like guns so much is yeah they're expensive but once you've got it where you're happy with it, you're done.
    I've been "accumulating" firearms for my entire adult life. But although I have saved a few of them forever, I always seem to use others as trading fodder to make new deals. At this I've been quite successful. Right now, I have mostly semi auto handguns (six) and one SA handgun (.22 Ruger) that I use for my training classes as a "beginner's gun" and a DAO Ruger SP101 that is really my daughter's gun. One of the 9mm's is going to my nephew but I've made him promise that to get it, he has to move away from the liberal northeast to one of the FREE states first and I doubt that'll ever happen. Geeeze the kid (21) was a PAID member of the Kerry campaign as an analyst! Anyway, once the SP101 goes off to it's new home, I'll have an empty hook in the gun cabinet and I'll need a replacement. So I'm already saving for my next addition a Sig P220 ST with rail and night sights and a SureFire X200 AND a set of CT Lasergrips to use as my dedicated "House Gun" and a backup for trips.
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

  3. #18
    VIP Member Array Euclidean's Avatar
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    I've never understood the concept of a short carbine for a civilian. In the military where everyone must have one of these rifles and they must be easy to transport and must all be the same and must be inexpensive as possible, they make sense.

    But I don't trudge 25 miles through waist deep mud in the jungle at a forced march every day.

    Why not just get a rifle that a reasonably skilled user can make 300 yard shots with? If it can hit the target at that range, it should be no problem at 30 feet.

    With all the scope mounts available now, there's no reason to restrict yourself to one system of sights on many rifles.

  4. #19
    Member Array ccm-tim's Avatar
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    I've been thinking about gettin a SOCOM for a while, too. Have you seen the new SOCOM II?
    http://www.springfield-armory.com/pr...socom-ii.shtml
    Seems to have a pretty cool rail system... wonder how much weight it ads. The one down side to the SOCOM that I can see is that it doesn't use standard M1A gas components. Not so good from a replacement parts standpoint. Maybe a scout squad is the CQB answer for us .308 guys.

  5. #20
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    Thumbs down 300 meters is the same as 30 feet? Don't think so.

    Quote Originally Posted by Euclidean
    I've never understood the concept of a short carbine for a civilian. Why not just get a rifle that a reasonably skilled user can make 300 yard shots with? If it can hit the target at that range, it should be no problem at 30 feet.
    Heck, I can hit a man sized target at 300 meters 9 out of 10 shots with iron sights using an M16. Hitting the target at either 30 feet or 300 meters isn't the issue. It's a matter of tactical practicality. Reach OUT and touch at long range from a static (fairly) location on game or anything else is different from creeping through your home in search of BG's where having your presence telegraphed by the appearance of a gun barrel preceding you is not a good idea. Even moving at the "low ready" position may not allow enough time to bring the muzzle into line if the space is cramped like in your home. Please don't say: "This is why handguns were created." Because my handgun is a device that buys me time to get to a rifle or better yet a semiauto SHOTGUN in a SHTF situation inside my castle. But there is a big difference between 30 feet and 300 meters. In fact if I have my choice, I go for my Benelli 12 ga. Being a combat setup it is itself considerably shorter than my M1A Super Match.
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

  6. #21
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    Cool Socom 16 Ii?

    Quote Originally Posted by ccm-tim
    I've been thinking about gettin a SOCOM for a while, too. Have you seen the new SOCOM II?
    http://www.springfield-armory.com/pr...socom-ii.shtml
    Seems to have a pretty cool rail system... wonder how much weight it ads. The one down side to the SOCOM that I can see is that it doesn't use standard M1A gas components. Not so good from a replacement parts standpoint. Maybe a scout squad is the CQB answer for us .308 guys.
    This looks to be very KEWL. But I'm less worried about the problems associated with maintenance, than I am with the OTHER major problem associated with this family of weapons and that is the fact that it is very LOUD! The muzzle brake may work like a charm, but it becomes a hearing killer in short order, even with standard ear plugs.
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

  7. #22
    VIP Member Array Euclidean's Avatar
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    I see it and yet I do not see it.

    The thing is, why precisely am I moving TOWARDS the invader? I'm not saying such a thing could never happen it just seems like that would not be smart if there was another choice.

    Now for the SHTF scenario yes I can see your logic, but even then if I mount a light to that gun they're going to see me coming anyway.

  8. #23
    Member Array heathen's Avatar
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    I'm looking for a Long Range Rifle also and am trying to pick between an Armalite, Bushmaster or DPMS AR in 308. I've been reading up on them for a few months and have yet to pick. The groups guys are getting with their rifles is what's drawing me to them. I think it fits what you seem to be looking for also.

  9. #24
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    Question Why move around a home under attack?

    Quote Originally Posted by Euclidean
    I see it and yet I do not see it.

    The thing is, why precisely am I moving TOWARDS the invader? I'm not saying such a thing could never happen it just seems like that would not be smart if there was another choice.

    Now for the SHTF scenario yes I can see your logic, but even then if I mount a light to that gun they're going to see me coming anyway.
    Okay, say you have loved ones in a different part of the house and you need to get them ALL into your safe room or master bedroom so you can "FORT UP" and wait for the cavalry to arrive as presumably you've called 911 or your alarm company has alerted the cops.

    This what happened when I had my intruder in 1996, I punched the bad guy out through the window he was climbing into and realized I HAD to bring my daughter into our room because there might be other BGs trying to gain entry elsewhere in the home. So I grabbed my Glock since it was next to me (no time to load up something else and I couldn't risk my daughter getting hit with ammo that was too powerful for the situation. I always load my HOME gun (well my carry piece too) with frangible bullets.

    So I made my way to the kid and dragged her on the floor into the main bedroom, then I set out to clear the rest of the house, but that's something I'm trained for and I had to find out why the 140 pound dog had not responded. She was sleeping next to the front door. About then eleven police units showed up, including a K-9 and then SHE GOT UP!! To her credit, once she realized that "mommy" was REALLY scared she got next to my wife and wouldn't leave her.

    The cops never caught the BG, but they did find a blood trail that got much heavier once he'd pushed his way through an 8 foot thick hedge of Bouganvillia which is a pretty bush with pretty flowers and extremely sharp thorns about two inches long with a thick base. They (cops) found the hedge and there were huge puddles of blood all over! LOL So he was never prosecuted but I got some measure of justice.
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

  10. #25
    VIP Member Array Euclidean's Avatar
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    Good Lord.

    I realize it's extremely easy for me to armchair quarterback any given situation because I wasn't there, but what was the benefit of clearing the house once everyone was hunkered down in the safe room?

    Plus in my situation, I don't have anyone else to worry about and never will. Unless it's some kind of crazy out in left field situation, which don't get me wrong that can and does happen, I have no business attempting what a SWAT team or a squad of Marines should be doing.

    Then again I live next door to a single mom with 4 kids. I've turned over in my head if I heard four little ones crying and a scream for help at 2 AM if I could just sit there, even if it was the most logical thing to do. Of course due to the apartment situation a gun might not be a prudent tool at all.

    Don't think I haven't thought about it.

    I'll be clear. I loathe violence. I have no desire to swoop in on a chariot and rescue people from horrible situations. I don't have a big red S or a badge on my chest for a good reason. But on the other hand, that's all well and good, but what the hell are you supposed to do when you're the only one there? You have to suck it up, get over your own cowardice, and do something; you can't just sit there.

    But on the other hand I know darn well pulling a cowboy stunt gets people killed, especially when you rush into a situation and don't know who's who and what's what.

    I figure I'll never actually know what I'd do unless it happens and I just hope it doesn't. I aspire to think I can keep my cool and not do something that's probably well intentioned but utterly dangerous for everyone involved. Part of that is not buying something that will enable that train of thought.

    I used to work for Lowe's in the Garden Center. I know the "Bouganvillia" very well. I used to have cuts and marks all over my arms constantly from handling them all day. They dig deeply into your hide, grow well in dry hot climates, and I highly reccommend them as a home security aide.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Euclidean
    Good Lord. I realize it's extremely easy for me to armchair quarterback any given situation because I wasn't there, but what was the benefit of clearing the house once everyone was hunkered down in the safe room? Unless it's some kind of crazy out in left field situation, which don't get me wrong that can and does happen, I have no business attempting what a SWAT team or a squad of Marines should be doing.

    I used to work for Lowe's in the Garden Center. I know the "Bouganvillia" very well. I used to have cuts and marks all over my arms constantly from handling them all day. They dig deeply into your hide, grow well in dry hot climates, and I highly reccommend them as a home security aide.
    ~SIGH~ I know I should have hunkered down in the safe room, but I HAD to find out what was the deal with our "other kid" the ummmmm errrr four legged one. Just as much a part of the family as everybody else.

    BTW, it doesn't take a SWAT team or a "squad of marines" to clear a house. It doesn't even really require two people, if you know what you're doing. Especially if you know what to do AND it's YOUR home! Just so happens I do. And it was. There was only one BG and he was heading for the horizon, hide stuck full of stickers. Do Boggies (Bouganvilla) grow well in Texas?
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

  12. #27
    VIP Member Array Euclidean's Avatar
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    In fact they do. They grow well out in West Texas for a fact with a little care. They're not completely maintenance free but they're no worse than any other plant. They're a pretty tough little plant. Our horticulturalist highly reccommended them, especially for people with a black thumb who just could not get anything else to grow.

    In the more moderate climate of central Texas I reason they would do fine as well.

    I told my mother to plant some in her yard but she doesn't want any because they're so thorny. I told her that was the point.

  13. #28
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    Bouganvillia sure love the desert heat in Phoenix. They grow like weeds. I have two that are 10" at the base (I know because I have cut them to the ground twice now) and they will not die. I hate them, I hate them, I hate them....
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  14. #29
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    FWIW, Euc, I'd strongly consider an AR for your rifle purchase. There are just limitless options. You can buy additional upper receivers in several calibers..308, 7.62x39, 22LR in addition to .223 not to mention 6.5 Grendel for less than another complete rifle. Sight/optics are easily changeable. Ammo is limitless.

    Don't overlook the fact that the AR has been the US's main battle rifle longer than any other with no end in sight.

    Shoot an M1 before you buy one. Historical sympathies aside, it's a handful besides all of the other detractors others mentioned above.

    I never thought I'd hear myself say this, but except for serious benchrest rifles, a commercial AR is capable of accuracy equal to any bolt action rifle.

    Or, if you're looking for a reasonably priced semi-auto medium range rifle don't forget to consider an SKS. Lots of folks love 'em. Mine is 100% reliable and will plug a milk jug at 100 yds (or more) with ease. There's a whole cult following for SKS's and you can dress them up six ways from Sunday, too.
    Last edited by Moondoggie; March 3rd, 2005 at 11:00 PM.
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  15. #30
    VIP Member Array Euclidean's Avatar
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    Actually Moondoggie I do have an SKS and like it a lot. Mine's not very fancy but it's configured just the way I like it. It's the perfect SKS as far as I am concerned. No silly folding stocks, no useless bayonets, no unreliable detachable magazine. Just 30 or 40 stripper clips and an ATI Monte Carlo stock, a sling, and the iron sights set just so. The ATI stock with the recoil pad makes it just the right length. $235. A bit too high but very affordable and besides, it was perfect.

    I actually first thought "Well this will a fun little gun but there's no way it's a serious weapon". I thought wrong. It's not a great rifle, but it's an extremely useful and practical one and its architecture makes a lot of sense to me. I wish I'd known more about the SKS sooner.

    I'd considered one of the Ruger Mini-30s but I'd buy another SKS or maybe even an AK clone before I bought one of those.

    Mine used to belong to a rancher who used it for his back porch gun. He and I must think a lot alike because I saw it and said "Dang, that's the perfect SKS" and I bought it. Coyotes are annoying.
    Last edited by Euclidean; March 3rd, 2005 at 11:57 PM.

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