Red dot and irons issue

Red dot and irons issue

This is a discussion on Red dot and irons issue within the Defensive Rifles & Shotgun Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; So I bought a cheap red dot for my AR rifle. It is a Bushnell TRS-32 red dot scope. Decent quality for the price and ...

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  1. #1
    VIP Member Array smolck's Avatar
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    Red dot and irons issue

    So I bought a cheap red dot for my AR rifle. It is a Bushnell TRS-32 red dot scope. Decent quality for the price and I just wanted to see if I would like it or not before saving up for something nice. My rifle has the fixed A2 post on the front, and no rear flip up yet. So when you bring the rifle up the dot and the post are on top of each other.

    I find it takes LONGER to line up the red dot with the front post. Sometimes I come up and it is dead on, sometimes not. The dot is either a little higher than the top of the post, slightly left or slightly right. Plus, with my astigmatism, the dot is a blurry red star.

    So should I ditch the red dot altogether? Get a free float rail with no post? Or am I doing it wrong?

    Help from the pros is appreciated......

    By the way, it is a pretty nice quality red dot, might be for sale soon.....cheap.
    As Benjamin Franklin left the hall in Philadelphia, he was asked, “What kind of government have you given us, Dr. Franklin?” He replied: “A republic, if you can keep it.”

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    Member Array browardboy's Avatar
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    Sounds like you have it setup for an absolute co-witness. Use a higher mount for your red dot and set it up for a lower 1/3 co-witness.

    ImageUploadedByTapatalk1436893650.267222.jpg

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    Why are you lining to dot up with the front sight post?
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    VIP Member Array smolck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by browardboy View Post
    Sounds like you have it setup for an absolute co-witness. Use a higher mount for your red dot and set it up for a lower 1/3 co-witness.

    ImageUploadedByTapatalk1436893650.267222.jpg
    Yes, it is. If I change the to lower 1/3, won't the red dot be off.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    Why are you lining to dot up with the front sight post?
    I thought I was supposed to for an absolute co witness.
    As Benjamin Franklin left the hall in Philadelphia, he was asked, “What kind of government have you given us, Dr. Franklin?” He replied: “A republic, if you can keep it.”

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    Member Array soberbiker's Avatar
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    You could just unscrew the front sigh post since you don't have a rear sight until you decide how you're going to set it up.
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    Esentially you're trying to substitute a rear iron for a RDS and, yeah, I can imagine that that would be tough to do... Co-witnessing with a RDS is basically a way to have a backup to your electronic sight. It's not meant to add things you have to have aligned before you can use it.
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    VIP Member Array DingBat's Avatar
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    yeah, you're over thinking. The beauty of a red dot is that you do not need the perfect linear alignment. They move as your head moves and so long as the dot is reasonably well centered in the optic, your still on target. as you move your head way off center and the dot start creeping towards the edges it starts getting pretty far off target, but try this.

    Rest the rifle on something, put the dot on a target, and try to get your front sight lined up where you think it's centered. now, without moving the gun at all, if you can set it up sitting on it's own even better, now keep looking thru the optic and move your head around a little. see how the dot moves with you and actually stays on target? but to your vision the front post does NOT move and appears off target because your head is off-line. but in reality the bore of the rifle has stayed in the exact same place.

    Hopefully that made sense. and yes, co-witness to the bottom third is preferable.
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    Red dot and irons issue

    Quote Originally Posted by smolck View Post
    Yes, it is. If I change the to lower 1/3, won't the red dot be off.



    I thought I was supposed to for an absolute co witness.
    If you change the mount, than you'll have to re-zero the red dot. Your iron sights are not that useable without the rear flip up, unless it's close range, combat and you're just focusing on the front sight post.
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    VIP Member Array smolck's Avatar
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    Thanks guys. Yes, @dingbat, what you describe makes sense and I was overthinking it, I thought that might be the case but having not shot it yet, I wasn't sure. @browardboy don't have a rear because I haven't gotten that far yet, this was another impulse buy (been happening a lot lately). So if I get a rear sight, should I still go lower 1/3? Sounds like I need a 1/2" riser.....
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    As Benjamin Franklin left the hall in Philadelphia, he was asked, “What kind of government have you given us, Dr. Franklin?” He replied: “A republic, if you can keep it.”

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    VIP Member Array DingBat's Avatar
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    oh, and FWIW - I *think* the reflex style sights like EOTech are better for astigmatism than the tube/dot style like the AIMpoint, I do not know which style the unit you're using is OP, but it might be worth a trip to the LGS to compare the two style and see if one works better with your eyes.

    I always beat the war drums to the expensive tritium units. I am absolutely in love with my Meprolight M21. no batteries, no switches, self adjusting, can have shaped reticles, (I like a triangle) and awesome!!
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    VIP Member Array smolck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by soberbiker View Post
    You could just unscrew the front sigh post since you don't have a rear sight until you decide how you're going to set it up.
    I actually thought about this, but the rifle is zeroed to it and I hate to move it.
    As Benjamin Franklin left the hall in Philadelphia, he was asked, “What kind of government have you given us, Dr. Franklin?” He replied: “A republic, if you can keep it.”

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    VIP Member Array smolck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DingBat View Post
    oh, and FWIW - I *think* the reflex style sights like EOTech are better for astigmatism than the tube/dot style like the AIMpoint, I do not know which style the unit you're using is OP, but it might be worth a trip to the LGS to compare the two style and see if one works better with your eyes.

    I always beat the war drums to the expensive tritium units. I am absolutely in love with my Meprolight M21. no batteries, no switches, self adjusting, can have shaped reticles, (I like a triangle) and awesome!!
    Yea, I am just dipping my toe in the red dot water so to speak. Most of the good ones are as much as I paid for the rifle itself. I really like irons and am thinking about just getting a tritium front post.

    I bought a cheap $100 sight mark reflex sight at bass pro yesterday first,it had 4 different reticle choices. When I got it home, the reticle so we're broken. It looked like it was trying to show them all at once. I had my perfect eyesight son confirm it. So I took it back (lesson learned on cheap). So I went to the LGS and the guy there (I know him, he's trustworthy) told me to try this Bushnell TRS-32. I paid $149 out the door.

    Maybe I should go shoot it before passing judgement.
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    As Benjamin Franklin left the hall in Philadelphia, he was asked, “What kind of government have you given us, Dr. Franklin?” He replied: “A republic, if you can keep it.”

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    VIP Member Array DingBat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smolck View Post
    Thanks guys. Yes, @dingbat, what you describe makes sense and I was overthinking it, I thought that might be the case but having not shot it yet, I wasn't sure. @browardboy don't have a rear because I haven't gotten that far yet, this was another impulse buy (been happening a lot lately). So if I get a rear sight, should I still go lower 1/3? Sounds like I need a 1/2" riser.....
    it's a personal thing. do you have a good cheek weld with it's location? will a1/2" riser make you lose cheek weld? how important is cheek weld to you as a shooter? how important is it on this particular gun? if you absolutely don't want a riser, then get folding sights and keep them folded down.

    Of course the serious war-fighters will tell you your irons should always be up and co-witnessed, be it absolute co-witness, 1/2, 1/3, whatever. yet another reason I like tritium, no batteries to go dead, no switches to turn on, much less likely of needing those back up irons so I feel better leaving them folded down in my Tavor than I would with a battery op unit.

    there;s nothing really wrong with an absolute co-witness, just mostly personal preference and training/practiticing to master your particular set up.

    but the ideal set-up for a fire breathing door kicker is back ups visible and co-witnessed in the bottom 1/3, in such a method that still allows adequate cheek weld.
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    Quote Originally Posted by smolck View Post
    Thanks guys. Yes, @dingbat, what you describe makes sense and I was overthinking it, I thought that might be the case but having not shot it yet, I wasn't sure. @browardboy don't have a rear because I haven't gotten that far yet, this was another impulse buy (been happening a lot lately). So if I get a rear sight, should I still go lower 1/3? Sounds like I need a 1/2" riser.....
    You most likely will simply need to dial up the dot unless you're close to the adjustment capacity as it is.

    FWIW, I had a Bushnell RDS (actually still have it somewhere) and it was pretty decent but it does suffer more parallax issues than my Aimpoints. By that I mean you still need to be looking down the sight relatively straight in order for the shot to hit where the dot is. If your eye isn't aligned pretty well, you can expect the shot to be off some. Nothing more than the hazards of a lesser optic but something to be aware of as you're working with it.
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    Pay no nevermind to the front sight post when dialing in your zero with the red dot. Put the dot on the target, shoot, adjust as necessary.
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