Tactical anti vehicular/personnel shotgun. (woot!) - Page 3

Tactical anti vehicular/personnel shotgun. (woot!)

This is a discussion on Tactical anti vehicular/personnel shotgun. (woot!) within the Defensive Rifles & Shotgun Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; I would think that 3 1/2 Deer slugs would probably get the job done. If not there is always a Barrett...

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  1. #31
    Distinguished Member Array Dakotaranger's Avatar
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    I would think that 3 1/2 Deer slugs would probably get the job done. If not there is always a Barrett
    "[T]he people are not to be disarmed of their weapons.
    They are left in full possession of them."

    Zacharia Johnson (speech in the Virginia Ratifying Convention,25 June 1778)"The best we can hope for concerning the people at large is that they be properly armed." ~Alexander Hamilton


  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colin View Post
    Of course you could use a PIAT or a LAW, or even better the cannister round in the Carl Gustav 84mm.
    Not to put too fine a point on it, but there is no cannister round for the Gustav (unless one has been developed that I can't find any info on). That was the one complaint that the AT guys had when they started the switch from the 90mm RR to the Goose (yes, I've been in that long) - the 90mm had a brutally effective (at short range) flechette round, but the Goose had no equivalent anti-personnel ammo.
    A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands - love a woman, build a house, change his son's diaper - his hands remember the rifle.

  3. #33
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    I was perusing some old Farnam articles and came across this. I'm not espousing any of the ideas put forth here; just passing 'em along...

    7 June 03

    Fighting from within cars:

    A federal agent and great friend of mine and of the NTI presented a thoroughgoing lecture on fighting from within cars during this year's event. Important points:

    A moving car, going as slow as fifteen miles per hour, is seldom penetrated by pistol bullets, even rifle bullets. Resistance to penetration is even greater at higher speeds. A stopped car is penetrated much more often. The lesson is clear: if you're in a car and the fight starts, stay in the car, speed up, get everyone down, and get out of there.

    Unless the attackers have RPGs, staying in the car and leaving at high speed nearly always makes more sense than exiting the car and fighting/fleeing on foot. A hit from an RPG will cause casualties on the inside of a car and probably disable it, but even a skilled RPG crew will have great difficulty hitting a rapidly accelerating car. As noted above, small arms fire at a moving cars mostly fails to hit in the first place, and even the rounds that do hit seldom penetrate to the interior.

    Molotov cocktails are largely ineffective against moving cars. If one strikes your car, just drive away. It will burn out in seconds and so little damage.

    Keep the interior of your car clean. Trash inside a vehicle can become harmful missiles during an explosion or high-speed crash.

    Seat belts are a two-edged sword. Wearing them restricts movement and makes getting into an effective firing position difficult. However, wearing them also makes it likely that one will survive a crash and remain conscious long enough to exit the vehicle and flee to safety. Wearing them is usually a good idea. They should only be taken off when things get desperate.

    Crack the windows several inches when things start going in the toilet. A cracked window is easily broken. Rolled all the way up, car windows are nearly impossible to break from the inside.

    If you're being followed by another vehicle, crack the driver's window and spray OC out the opening. The slipstream will deliver it directly to the pursuing vehicle. Even if their windows are rolled up, the OC will be sucked in to their vehicle and "encourage" them to find something else to do!

    When firing at pursuing vehicles, shoot into the radiator. It's a big target, and once a radiator leak is created, the pursuing vehicle will quickly overheat and have to stop.

    The best weapons for fighting from a car are pistols and short-barreled rifles. Long-barreled rifles and shotguns are unwieldy and difficult to maneuver inside a car. A good "urban rifle" is just the ticket. The best caliber is 308. Rifles chambered for 223 lack sufficient penetration to be effective against most cars.

    /John
    A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands - love a woman, build a house, change his son's diaper - his hands remember the rifle.

  4. #34
    Distinguished Member Array Colin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OPFOR View Post
    Not to put too fine a point on it, but there is no cannister round for the Gustav (unless one has been developed that I can't find any info on). That was the one complaint that the AT guys had when they started the switch from the 90mm RR to the Goose (yes, I've been in that long) - the 90mm had a brutally effective (at short range) flechette round, but the Goose had no equivalent anti-personnel ammo.
    Funny I remember in my training being shown a brochere that had a selection of ammo for the Carl G, they had cannister as well as Illumination, plus a whack of others, this was around 1981. I know the Canadian Forces at that time only bought the HEAT round and practice rounds.

    found this:
    Canadian designations are used, others are similar, replacing the "FFV")
    *FFV441 is a HE Shrapnel round, useful in a "lobbed" trajectory to 1,000m, which can be fused to fire on impact or airburst.
    *FFV469 is a smoke round fired like the FFV441, with a range of about 1,300m.
    *FFV502 is a "high explosive, dual purpose" HEDP round. The term "high explosive" is misleading, however. It is a HEAT round, with the ability to be set to detonate on impact or one tenth of a second afterwards.
    *FFV551 is the primary HEAT round, it is rocket-assisted, with a range of about 700m, effective against moving targets at up to 400m. Penetration is 400mm of rolled steel armor.
    *FFV552 is a practice round with the same ballistics as the 551.
    *FFV545 is an illuminating starshell, fired up to 2,300m, providing 400m radius illumination. The projectile has a parachute attached to it to keep it in air longer.
    *FFV651 is a newer HEAT round using mid-flight rocket assistance for ranges up to 1,000m. In theory, it has less penetration than the FFV551, but it includes a stand-off probe for the fuse to improve performance against reactive armor.

    Saab also makes a Fleechette round for them

    http://products.saabgroup.com/PDBWeb...=Files&Id=4705

    But I suspect the US Government would rather spend 1 billion designing their own version....

  5. #35
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    Boy, the AT guys would have loved that flechette round! Heck, I'm sure they have them by now - we bought the Goose in the first place because we couldn't come up with a significantly better system on our own, considering that "big Army" had completely abandoned the RR as a weapon system...
    A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands - love a woman, build a house, change his son's diaper - his hands remember the rifle.

  6. #36
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    Way Out There

    I have a pickup so my trunk is bigger than yours. I am going to opt for a circa 1960's 106mm recoilless rifle. Going to stop the car and make some jelly in the process. Yall remember to duck your heads when I hit the plunger!
    Friends don't let friends buy GLOCKs!

  7. #37
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    "The pistol, learn it well, carry it always ..." ~ Jeff Cooper

    "Terrorists: They hated you yesterday, they hate you today, and they will hate you tomorrow. End the cycle of hatred, donít give them a tomorrow."

  8. #38
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    Stop A Car?

    I'll go for the driver...then run for cover!

    ret
    The last Blood Moon Tetrad for this millennium starts in April 2014 and ends in September 2015...according to NASA.

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  9. #39
    Distinguished Member Array Colin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dwillar View Post
    I have a pickup so my trunk is bigger than yours. I am going to opt for a circa 1960's 106mm recoilless rifle. Going to stop the car and make some jelly in the process. Yall remember to duck your heads when I hit the plunger!
    We used to keep ours on M38 jeeps, just don't take corners fast!! They still use them up here for avalance control.

    Veering back to topic, that shotgun add-on looks just a little "bubba" to me, how are supposed to hold on to the foregrip?

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