Shotgun Question

This is a discussion on Shotgun Question within the Defensive Rifles & Shotgun Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Hi Folks! I am not terrribly well versed in combat shotguns, so I've got a question for ya'll - there is an aftermarket barrel for ...

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Thread: Shotgun Question

  1. #1
    Member Array Gary Brommeland's Avatar
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    Shotgun Question

    Hi Folks!


    I am not terrribly well versed in combat shotguns, so I've got a question for ya'll - there is an aftermarket barrel for 870's (made by Mossberg) that has a comp at the muzzle that sortal looks like a birdcage flash suppressor. It's called a "Breacher Barrel". I am tempted to put one on my gun (12 ga recoil w/ slugs is not a lot of fun) in an effort to tame the recoil a bit, but I am concerned about muzzle flash. I absolutely will not comp any handgun that I intend to employ as a defensive tool because most gunfights occur in low light and one muzzle flash, and you're gonna be blind long enough for a BG to do you in.

    Since this thing looks to be made a lot like a flash suppressor, how much will it flash in low light when compared with a stock 18.5" cylinder bore? Anyone used one of these? Thanks for your time.

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  3. #2
    Senior Moderator
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    My understanding is that the breacher is designed for close contact with a door lock, and that it does not offer any sort of recoil reduction.

    Matt
    Battle Plan (n) - a list of things that aren't going to happen if you are attacked.
    Blame it on Sixto - now that is a viable plan.

  4. #3
    VIP Member Array Bud White's Avatar
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    If recoil reduction is what you want

    I would try a knoxx comp stock or one of the other the spec ops i shot on a 12 did reduce recoil quite a bit

    http://www.knoxx.com/NewStyleKnoxx/P...cOpsStock.html

    or this one

    http://www.knoxx.com/NewStyleKnoxx/P...s/COPstock.htm

    http://www.knoxx.com/NewStyleKnoxx/T...t/Comptech.htm

  5. #4
    Member Array Gary Brommeland's Avatar
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    Thanks, guys. I appreciate the intel...

  6. #5
    Senior Member Array A1C Lickey's Avatar
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    If we're thinking about the same thing then no. Like MattLarson said the breacher is used to breach a door. And from personal experience there is NO reduction in recoil. But once you learn to use one properly, they are LOTS of fun.
    TSgt. Lickey

    It takes a college degree to break'em;
    and a high school education to fix'em!

  7. #6
    Distinguished Member Array Bob The Great's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bud White View Post
    If recoil reduction is what you want

    I would try a knoxx comp stock or one of the other the spec ops i shot on a 12 did reduce recoil quite a bit
    I can vouch for the Knoxx stocks. I have a SpecOps stock on my 12ga, and it takes a big chunk of the oomph off of it (at least on my end), even with 3" shells.

    To my knowledge, there aren't really any gas-based compensators made for shotguns. I'm not entirely sure why, but I've never seen one.

  8. #7
    VIP Member Array Bud White's Avatar
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    When they used to fit a Cutt's thats about the last time for a add on comp .. Unless you send it to vang Comp to have it ported.. Before i would do that as i said before i would spend the 130$ for a Knoxx

  9. #8
    Senior Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob The Great View Post
    I can vouch for the Knoxx stocks. I have a SpecOps stock on my 12ga, and it takes a big chunk of the oomph off of it (at least on my end), even with 3" shells.

    To my knowledge, there aren't really any gas-based compensators made for shotguns. I'm not entirely sure why, but I've never seen one.
    I'd speculate that it is because of the lower operating pressure of the shotgun (reducing the available energy for recoil reduction) and the large bore (reducing the percentage of the gas that can be redirected).

    But that's just a WAG.

    Matt
    Battle Plan (n) - a list of things that aren't going to happen if you are attacked.
    Blame it on Sixto - now that is a viable plan.

  10. #9
    VIP Member Array Rob72's Avatar
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    Gary, if you want comping, go Magnaport, and either the Knoxx stock or a Kick-Eeze recoil pad. I did Magnaport and Kick-Eeze on a Benelli M1 and it became almost excessively pleasant (400 rounds of #8 shot became a "blast" instead of 100 rounds being a"hammering".)

  11. #10
    Senior Member Array Scot Van's Avatar
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    My BIASED vote for the ATI stock

    That breaching mount will not do much to reduce either flash or recoil, and is not designed to!! It is a very neat way to reduce risk of incidental injury due to unpredictable shot deflection. Some departments I work with find the thing has been rendered obsolete by shotshells designed for breaching (compressed ceramic, frangible stuff and the like). Polyshok is issuing a very nice example of a high-velocity, low penetration round.

    I gotta' give respect to Knoxx for making an innovative step, however, my customers (armorers, LE instructors, rangemasters, cops and soldiers) agree that the 'recoil suppression system' unit amounts to a greater risk of 'short stroking' the weapon. IMHO, anything that increases the chances of a jam in a high-risk situation becomes a variable I'd just as soon do without. Transitioning to sidearm is fine, but I'd rather hang on the the ol' 870 as long as possible. Further, in light of the fact that the system is only a pair of springs (there ARE stocks that feature very cool pneumatic piston designs by a company called Endine, but those are for AR rifles and the like), it is hard to understand why Knoxx is charging so much for it!

    OK, so I work for ATI, and I'm supposed to say all that stuff. What I'll add is that I suggest a Pepsi challenge. Try the Knoxx, then try ours (and others, see the list below). You'll notice the basic material we use is a beefier, stronger synthetic than some others. Our glass-filled nylon stocks FEEL good in your hands. AND, we offer our stocks at a fraction of what ANY of the other guys can. We make everything in the US and guarantee it for life.

    All said and done, there are really good things about other stocks, too. Look around at them all...Mesa Tactical, Tacstar, Choate and Speedfeed, for a good cross-section of what is out there. However, my thinking is that you can spend $400 on a milled aluminum stock for a $500 shotgun, but why would you?!! Conversely, you can spend something that approaches our cost, but wind up with ONE UGLY STOCK...again, why?

    I'll drop the pitch, now, with a thank you and an apology to my forum mates who may have bristled at the blatant plug here. I hope it is clear that I offer information outside of a 'sales pitch', and invite dissenting views.
    A man in the hands of his enemies is flesh, and shudderingly vulnerable. - author unknown

  12. #11
    Senior Member Array firefighter4884's Avatar
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    Scot,

    Can you post links?

    --Jim
    Firefighter / EMT - Always Ready. Ever Willing.

    ~Never do anything that you don't want to have to explain to the paramedics...~

  13. #12
    Senior Member Array Scot Van's Avatar
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    Sure thing!

    Quote Originally Posted by firefighter4884 View Post
    Scot,

    Can you post links?

    --Jim
    Out of respect for this forum and the individuals who operate it, I shan't post stuff like this unless pertinent to the thread and SPECIFICALLY asked for.

    You can look at our entire line of stocks at

    www.atigunstocks.com

    also,

    www.knoxx.com
    www.speedfeedinc.com
    www.mesatactical.com
    www.choatestocks.com
    A man in the hands of his enemies is flesh, and shudderingly vulnerable. - author unknown

  14. #13
    Senior Member Array Scot Van's Avatar
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    Additional note...

    Regarding Mesa Tactical...

    These guys are STELLAR! Their stuff is definitely a cut above anyone else's design, but you pay through the nose for 'em. Everything is milled aluminum, and incredibly durable. The really great thing about what this company is doing is that they make your shotgun milspec! With the adapter they make, you can slide your milspec AR-15 stock onto your shotgun!

    Drawbacks : super pricey AND you'll need a different adapter to fit a Mossberg, Winchester or Remington. Ours fits all of 'em and it is MUCH less expensive.

    I should mention that Mesa Tactical is now offering the Endine recoil system for the shotgun line. If you really think you need a recoil suppression system, go for that one, not the aforementioned spring system.
    A man in the hands of his enemies is flesh, and shudderingly vulnerable. - author unknown

  15. #14
    Member Array Gary Brommeland's Avatar
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    Scot,

    The forum staff and management are not going to object to mentioning your product, unless that's ALL that you do. The kind of information that the members are looking for is in part "what do I need? Where can I find it?" kinda stuff, and I don't want you to feel as though you are gonna get jumped for mentioning a product that you are connected with. ( So long as you are also involved in other aspects of the forum as well.)

    Personally, I want to thank you for your post - I was just about to order a Knoxx stock for my 870. However, in a defensive tool reliability is my number one consideration, and a stock that would encourage a "short stroke" is definately out of the question.

    For my personal use, I am looking for a stock that is not going to give a shotgun the "assault weapon" look. God forbid that I am actually forced to use it, but if that does occur I want the jury to see "grandpa's ole shotgun" rather than "an evil assault weapon designed soley for the purpose of killing human beings". (A lot of prosecutors don't really care much about justice as opposed to their conviction rate.)

    So, my question to you is this - what stock would you recommend for my purposes - a general purpose defensive shotgun that does not look "tactical"?

    As far as recoil reduction goes, I'm 6-2 and 240 lbs and I can deal with the recoil. (I just don't like it much). However, my wife or teenage son might need to employ it, and I want it to be manageable for them. Reduced recoil loads are obviously part of the equation, but I think that porting is not. John Farnam points out that since shotguns have thin barrel walls to begin with, porting them makes them prone to cracking. I intend to send a barrel to Hans Vang to work his magic on, and I'd hate to have a 3-$400 barrel crack on me...

    In any event, your knowledge of this subject matter seems to greatly exceed my own, so I am open to suggestions. Thank you for your time.

  16. #15
    VIP Member Array Rob72's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gary Brommeland View Post
    John Farnam points out that since shotguns have thin barrel walls to begin with, porting them makes them prone to cracking. I intend to send a barrel to Hans Vang to work his magic on, and I'd hate to have a 3-$400 barrel crack on me...
    It would depend very much on how you use it. First, Remington and Winchester (now FN) have the thickest walled barrels made, unless you get the mil-spec Mossberg 590-A1. Benelli's M4 is actually the first heavy-wall, comparable to stock Rem & Win, they've made. Having said that, if you're going to knock the barrel around quite a bit (room clearing, in a cruiser, etc., etc.,) I might be concerned with porting of any kind. However, as a home-owner, and not one to use your shotty as a ram on a regular basis, it should not be much concern.

    Secondly, as Gabe Suarez points out, we have developed a fascination for making "rifles" out of shotguns. The purpose of a SG is to spread shot, not make all the pellets go into a 1" hole at 25 yards. In context, I would like a Vang barrel in certain, limited, situations, but not on a HD shotgun. In that context, if you did have a barrel split, (if you were wise in the purchase), it would be a $99 Mossberg-made Rem aftermarket part.

    If you don't want a mechanized stock, you could try:
    http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/sto...RECOIL+REDUCER
    http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/sto...RECOIL+REDUCER

    I haven't used any of the stock-mounted devices, so..

    The problem people usually have with the SG is the lift, more than the recoil, so for smaller people/people who aren't going to really work a SG handling system into their repertoir, porting, mated with a good pad, goes a long way. "Recoil" becomes a straight-back shove, instead of a "back-and-up".

    FWIW, drilling ports can weaken a barrel, structurally, EDM (Magnaport) should not.

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