Something I have always wondered...

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Thread: Something I have always wondered...

  1. #1
    VIP Member Array Euclidean's Avatar
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    Something I have always wondered...

    Why aren't pump action rifles more popular?

    I mean think about it. We all know how to work a pump shotgun, so how come we all have pump shotguns but no pump rifles? Good heavens my Mossberg 500 was the second gun I ever had. I've had it since I was 15 years old. I used to fire it out in the woods in the summer.

    And obviously the 870 is suitable for serious, heavy duty, combat use. It boggles the mind that the 7600 sees no such use.

    Honestly can someone point out a big difference between using a 12 gauge loaded with slugs and a pump action rifle? I understand you can't treat a shotgun like a rifle when it comes to hunting or shooting clays, but if your purpose is defending the ranch I think you'd do just fine.

    I think it could be a great idea. I don't see why you couldn't take one of those tactical shotgun courses and use much of what you learn with such a rifle.

    Honestly, how many people here honestly feel a good lever action rifle would defend your family nicely? That's another manual of arms we all know and like. Why not the pump?

    Just pie in the sky folks... I understand autoloaders are advantageous and reloading a pump rifle may not be exactly fast, but given the number of firearms successfully used in service that aren't autoloaders, it just blows my mind this market doesn't exist at all.

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  3. #2
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    Euc - funny you should bring this up.

    My primary deer rifle has been for some time a Rem Gamemaster 760 ... note to others ... get an old 760 and not the 7600 - it seems the ''improvements'' - were not!!

    It is somewhat of a carbine because short in barrel - weight is modest and it is a very totable rifle. Mine does tho like only premium feeding - good factory or my homeloads - milsurp is a no-no - ejection probs! .308 Win means just that - NOT 7.62 x 51!!

    There are I believe a lot of these around and a good one is worth getting IMO. Very pleasant to shoot despite being a shade lighter perhaps than some other .308 offerings.

    Mag only holds four but heck - for hunting - hardly a problem. Love mine.


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    VIP Member Array Bud White's Avatar
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    For some reason they never really took off the biggest advantage i see with one is say you have a Remington 870 as i do if you shoot it a lot then you might want a gun like a 760 Remington like i have so you have the same manual of operations.

    Couse i cant tell you anyother maker than remington that makes or made a pump.


    Theres no difference between using a pump rifle and pump shotgun except barrel lenght and recoil .. but since Higher cap mags arent acainble and you are limited in calibers i think thats why people dont go for them over the semi auto


    The 308 is nice but for a nice deer rifle go with 300 savage but hard to find ammo if your think Shtf

  5. #4
    Former Member Array The Tourist's Avatar
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    but no pump rifles
    Euc, there are lots of pump rifles. One of the most famous .22 short gallery guns is a pump rifle--it's almost 100 years old and it's still being made.

    I handled a .30-06 pump rifle this afternoon.

    And to me, it makes perfect sense, I'm a handloader. The pressure of loads I make can vary. This might cause feeding and ejecting problems.

    And once, it did. I fed my first AR-15 a whole bunch of .223 loads assembled from IMR-4831. This is great gunpowder, for a turn bolt rifle. It was so sooty I had to schpritz almost a whole can of WD-40 just to separate the bolt from the bolt carrier.

    With a pump rifle, I could even load linotype cast rifle bullets to moderate speed and still easily operate repetitive shots.

  6. #5
    Member Array Mr. Chitlin's Avatar
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    I've always wondered why the pump rifle didn't take off, too. Strange how the market is.

    Chris, tht's a GREAT looking rifle. I'd love to have an 18.5" 760 in 308!!

    Bud, I think Browning came out with a centerfire pump a couple of years ago, looks kind of like the BAR when the handle is forward.
    Last edited by Mr. Chitlin; May 31st, 2005 at 11:38 PM.

  7. #6
    VIP Member Array Euclidean's Avatar
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    Just my experiences Tourist. I've met very few people who own a pump rifle versus the number who own a pump shotgun.

    Like Bud pointed out, who really makes one I can think of besides Remington?

    Good heavens I think I've seen more lever action shotguns than I have pump action rifles. For that matter I think I've seen more Ramblers and Gremlins on the highway than I have of either of those broad categories of long guns.

    It seems like everyone has semiautomatics, bolt action, and lever action all in the same gun case but seldom a pump.

  8. #7
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    Just remembered - one of my real early .22's was - a cute lil' Browning pump - nice rifle but - heck - it was made to fit a 10 year old - and nothing bigger!
    Chris - P95
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    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


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    Member Array George Hill's Avatar
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    Pump rifles...
    Well, it's really our fault for not buying them. Look at the IMI Timberwolf. A fantastic camp rifle! .38 Special / .357 Magnum pump action rifle that was quite a dandy. I loved it. But I didn't buy one, and not many other people did either. So it was discontinued.
    Gun makers are not in business to make nifty guns... they are in business to sell guns. If they don't sell, they have to try something else that will.

  10. #9
    Member Array ebd10's Avatar
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    The Remington 760 used to be an awesome rifle until they "improved" it. As a matter of fact, some Air Force guy won the 1960 Olympic Running Deer competition using one in .222 (of course, it had been worked on extensively). The secret was that in the old guns, the barrel was free-floating. Once they attached the stamped steel piece that connects the barrel with the part that the fore end rides on, accuracy (and popularity) went down the tubes.

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    There IS A Reason For Not Many Pump Rifles

    And that is that autoloaders were invented and they work really well and why wash the dishes by hand when you can chuck them into a high quality dishwasher and they get cleaner than if you washed them all by hand?

    I mean what was wrong with the Model "T" Ford?
    It was well built and reliable...it got you where you wanted to go (eventually) ...& it didn't eat up too much gas.

    That's exactly what happened to the idea of modern pump rifles.

    Actually, many auto~loading shotguns are amazingly reliable these days. They are flawless...SO...why do folks stay with the pump shotgun...beats me?...but, I'm one of them.
    I GUESS the pump action is something that (at this point in time) we're all still willing to put up with to have a bigger defensive BOOM with more "perceived" reliability.!
    For a serious defensive SUPER reliable rifle ~ give me something with an AK action in .223 & a few 50 round mags in a rifle that goes "Lightning Fast Bang" every single time & I'll be a happy camper.

    ALSO DON'T FORGET that with any rifle style that uses a tubular bullet storage system ~ modern "pointed nose" rifle bullet configurations cannot be used....because a sharp bullet point contacting the PRIMER of the cartridge in front of it is never such a good idea.
    Last edited by QKShooter; June 1st, 2005 at 12:51 AM. Reason: Addition

  12. #11
    Former Member Array The Tourist's Avatar
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    To my way of thinking, an "auto" rifle is simply a pump rifle with a recoil system. QKS is correct. As autos got more reliable, pumps got less attractive. Autos also ease recoil.

    However, if a good pump was offered to me in a nice calibre at a fair price I would look upon the firearm as a valid addition to a collection.

    In fact, a short pump carbine in .243 would be a great woods gun.

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    Senior Member Array rfurtkamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Euclidean
    Honestly, how many people here honestly feel a good lever action rifle would defend your family nicely? That's another manual of arms we all know and like. Why not the pump?
    For me, it's simple ergonomics. Past the point that I don't need two hands to operate the mechanism on a semi-auto once it's ready to rock and roll, and can fire using the pistol grip on a sling or from the hip or whatever, the fact remains that I ate a knife in my right thumb and through to the hand when I was younger. I've never been able to cycle a pump reliably under stress since.

    For others, I suspect it's simply volume of firepower and ease of use. Follow up shots with a semi-auto are far, far faster since you're only concentrating on the target, not the weapon.
    Driver carries less than $45 worth of remorse.

  14. #13
    VIP Member Array Bud White's Avatar
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    Lets toos this one in food for though sure tou can op a semi auto one hand but try using that tiny bolt op handle on some of the guns versus just yanking back on that huge forstock on a pump to clear it if it goes click instead of BOOOOM

  15. #14
    VIP Member Array Euclidean's Avatar
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    With regards to pump shotguns

    I guess really the only reason you'd make a pump shotgun is that it's cheaper than an autoloader.

    I for one am not much of a shotgunner, which is perhaps unfortunate, but when I do require a shotgun my pump is more than adequate.

    The only reason I might use a shotgun in the near future is if I happen to have to accompany my father on a father son hunting trip or some other similar circumstance. The pump shotgun just seems like a better way to go.

    I keep meaning to take it to a clay pit just so I can embarass myself in front of a bunch of women...

    But seriously a 12 gauge pump shotgun has got to be one of the best values in firearms. There's lots of good specimens at all price ranges and it's so versatile. It makes me wonder even more why pump rifles aren't nearly as popular.

  16. #15
    Member Array George Hill's Avatar
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    And that is why Benelli has a fantastic rifle out based on their shotgun action.

    But why manual? Because manual shucking arms are not ammo sensitive... even the best automatic has to use ammo loaded within a certain spectrum. You go outside of that, and reliability drops. With a pump or lever or bolt... these things are not a factor. You can shoot anything you want as long as the bullet gets out of the barrel.

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