Carbine Crazy- PC4 to use Glock mags?

This is a discussion on Carbine Crazy- PC4 to use Glock mags? within the Defensive Rifles & Shotgun Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; I dont know why, but I'm going nuts on this pistol cal. carbine thing. I dont know why I need some, but I do. I ...

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Thread: Carbine Crazy- PC4 to use Glock mags?

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    Carbine Crazy- PC4 to use Glock mags?

    I dont know why, but I'm going nuts on this pistol cal. carbine thing. I dont know why I need some, but I do. I just ordered a RRA 9mm AR, and have been pulling my hair out looking for a PC9.

    I havent been able to locate a PC9, but I have found some PC4s. The only reason I havent bought a 40 is the magazine issue. I have heard rumors about be able to convert them to use Glock mags, has anybody done this?
    "Just blame Sixto"

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    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Re PC9's ... Spoke too soon. The ones I had listed all seem to have been recently sold. Sorry 'bout that.

    PC4 on GunsAmerica.

    Another PC4 on GunsAmerica.

    Yet another PC4 on GunsAmerica.

    PC9 on Gunbroker.com. Closes in 3hrs.

    The EliteDealSeeker.com tool is great for a quick scan of all recent postings on all the major gun classifieds forums around the country. Using it, you can get wind of recent ads that come up, within moments of them being posted.

    CheaperThanDirt.com carries the magazines.
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    Thanks, I've been watching that PC9. It was a pretty good deal a few days ago, but its getting a little to high. I just picked up a PC4 a few minutes ago online for 350.- I think thats a steal. I'm researching mags now. I'm wondering if its worth the effort for a Glock conversion or sticking with Ruger mags.
    I know I can convert Beretta mags to work, and both the 9mm and 40 versions of both brand mags will feed.
    "Just blame Sixto"

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    The PC4 is becoming my latest pet project. I've ordered a bunch of garbage for it, but I dont know why I need to do this yet. I've spent a bunch of cash on what was supposed to be my fun gun on a budget... oh well, budgets always go out the window.

    Here are the mods on the way;

    HK style flash hider
    Reflex Holo sight
    New and improved trigger group
    Glock mag conversion (When I figure out how to do it)
    Surefire G2 hardmount with remote switch
    Basic nylon sling
    Gould & Goodrich spare mag carrier

    Boy, am I going to have some explaining to do...
    "Just blame Sixto"

  6. #5
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    I guess since no one is really interested in this thread, I'll go a whole new direction with it.
    Why are the pistol caliber carbines not popular? The more I think about it, the more I think they are ideal for light SHTF SD or just for fun. Dont get me wrong, I dont think they can take the place of a rifle in a rifle caliber, but if you really are honest with yourself, is the power and expense of a .308 really needed for the light duty its really going to see?
    "Just blame Sixto"

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    Distinguished Member Array Bob The Great's Avatar
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    I've been considering a pistol caliber carbine myself for a while. I have a hard time concieving a scenario that wouldn't be better served by either my carry pistol or the AR that would be right next to the carbine, but I still want one. It sure would be nice for ammo inter-changability, I guess.

    And you know you're required to post a range report on any new gun you buy, right?
    "A well-educated electorate, being necessary to the continuance of a free state, the right of the people to keep and read books shall not be infringed."
    Is this hard to understand? Then why does it get unintelligible to some people when 5 little words are changed?

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    SIXTO,

    I've always been a fan of pistol caliber carbines, especially if I can use the same mags in my carbine as my carry pistol. I have a 9mm Beretta Storm and mag inserts to accept a 92 or PX4 mag. I have four 20 round mags, two for each model, for the CX4. They are just over flush with the pistol grip of the Storm.

    Usually the mention of a PCC draws the ire of the anti-pistol carbine guys. I'm amazed it hasn't already started.
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    I'm not anti-PCC, but I just don't see the point.

    If you are going to get the disadvantages of a rifle in terms of size and weight, why not take the power upgrade along with it?

    Matt
    Battle Plan (n) - a list of things that aren't going to happen if you are attacked.
    Blame it on Sixto - now that is a viable plan.

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    I think that a pistol caliber carbine is probably ideally suited for Home Defense. Probably more so than a shotgun for many people.
    You can sway a thousand men by appealing to their prejudices quicker than you can convince one man by logic.

    ― Robert A. Heinlein,

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    I think that the pistol caliber carbine could fill a defense roll very well, just like a pistol caliber smg (like a MP-5) does for a swat team, or like the Thompson used to do in a WW2 fire-team.

    The idea has merit especially when matched up with interchangeable mags with a carry pistol, kinda like keepin a .45LC Peacemaker and 1873 Winchester to keep ammo simpler.

    I think a big part of the reason they aren't more popular is that first of all there aren't too many of them on the market, and a lot of the ones out there are expensive. Maybe there aren't too many out there because there hasn't been much interest and its a "chicken or the egg" type problem.

    I see your point about the .308, but if push comes to shove, I'd rather have the .308. And does one really need the expense and power of a .45 on the hip, when light duty and probably never being fired in anger/defense is all it is never going to see? (just a little devil's advocate there).


    I think the whole idea just kind of gets over shadowed by other types of weapons. Usually for close, like under 15 or 25 yards, people think pistol, up close to -50 yards or so, a shotgun, and beyond that, rifle (at least I do), as the type of weapon to use at that range.
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  12. #11
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    My thinking on a pistol caliber carbine is that,

    I am more accurate with a weapon I can shoulder.

    I can shot through walls.

    I have more magazine capacity.

    I'm using the same round as my pistol.

    Reduced recoil = more shoots on target or missing faster.

    I have a full size FAL that I would use in most situations, but in a house is not one of them. A short pistol caliber carbine would be idea for that situation.
    You can sway a thousand men by appealing to their prejudices quicker than you can convince one man by logic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MattLarson View Post
    I'm not anti-PCC, but I just don't see the point.

    If you are going to get the disadvantages of a rifle in terms of size and weight, why not take the power upgrade along with it?

    Matt
    Normally, I would agree with your thoughts about it, but I am changing my song a little. Here is where Im coming from with this;

    223 ( and other battle rifle calibers) is becoming near impossible to come across at a reasonable price. I have my stockpile, but its getting darn expensive for a normal range trip. I want and need to maintain my stock levels too. So, I started to come up with the alternatives.
    I am thinking that I trust a pistol round to be effective all of the time. Why would it be any different in a true shtf situation? People are not going to be super humans or anything else, if anything they would be weaker than normal.
    If I can deliver that same pistol round more accurate and at a longer distance, Ill take it. Being honest with myself, I really dont see taking the Hail Mary 100 plus yard shots that would require a true rifle. Im not discounting the importance of the rifle of course. It has its role, but the pistol calibers can and will do a lot of the work that a rifle was doing.

    I can also practice a whole lot more for a couple of reasons.
    First as already addressed, money. I can also build and keep the war chest up quicker as well, keeping calibers to a minimum.
    I can also use pistol ranges, and not have to travel to rifle ranges every range session. This saves me time and money.

    It seems as if its a win win to use a pistol caliber carbine.
    "Just blame Sixto"

  14. #13
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    First, where/when could a civilian unleash a .308 round in our typical society? There's just no tellin' where the bullet could wind up. It could easily go through both sides of a car, through both sides of another car, and after that go through all walls of a house and come out lethal on the other side of the house. In what situation would we need that kind of power, penetration, and range?

    So, the first issue is why do we need a rifle for SD? How are we gonna claim SD if we're shooting 100-200 yards off? Why would we need to do that?

    Then the shotgun: a shot gun is low capacity, very loud, lots of recoil, range limited, and heavy. The shells themselves have to be carried separately and loaded individually, and the typical scenario is to carry both slugs and 00 to address range issues. But again, where does the shotgun fit into home defense scenarios? Just shooting a shotgun indoors with no ear protection, will definitely impair your hearing for a long time. Then there's the bright muzzle flash and there goes night vision.

    The .223: not bad, but they require a second type of ammo and mags and they are loud, esp. if you shoot indoors - it will impair your hearing for a long time. Then there's the muzzle flash - a ball of fire that will take away your night vision.

    The PCC: much improved accuracy over a handgun. Electronic sights can be used on a carbine with practically no increase in bulk. That also enhances speed and accuracy. You can easily do head shots at 50 yards.

    They have significantly lower muzzle flash and blast. Several pistol rounds have suppressed muzzle flash powders which all but eliminate problems with night vision. The 9mm round has just about the ideal balance of penetration. It penetrates almost any barrier material better than a .223, but is far short of the penetration power of a .308.

    The PCC has a longer barrel than the handgun and may give a little boost to the bullet. E.g. the velocity of a 9mm may approach the velocity of some .357 sigs and .357 mags. Short of the energy of the .357 mag because of bullet weight.

    PCCs use the same magazines and ammo as the pistol. So if the carbine or pistol becomes damaged or unoperational for what ever reason, all that ammo can be used in other weapon - same ammo, same mags. Some PCCs, e.g. the Beretta Storm, is shorter than ARs and shotguns and ligher as well making them very manueverable in tighter places.

    Pistol ammo is very compact, so lot's of it can be carried in pistol mags.

    What's not to like?
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  15. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post
    ...I am changing my song a little.
    I honestly believe it's a step in the right direction.

    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO
    ...I am thinking that I trust a pistol round to be effective all of the time. Why would it be any different in a true shtf situation? People are not going to be super humans or anything else, if anything they would be weaker than normal.
    If I can deliver that same pistol round more accurate and at a longer distance, Ill take it....
    Exactly! What's not to like!

    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO
    It seems as if its a win win to use a pistol caliber carbine.
    YEEESSS! It's good to see somebody besides myself is seeing it that way.

    The point about cost of ammo for practice and stockpiling is excellent! You do shoot 9mm don't you? For the exact same reason you mentioned?
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    OK - maybe you guys are starting to change my thinking on pistol caliber carbines.
    Perhaps I could actually even spring for one in .45 some day.

    For me...a 9mm PCC would BE adding another caliber since I presently have/shoot nothing in 9.
    So (for that reason) I would probably not buy one chambered for 9.
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