M44 Carbine For Defense?

[Joshua M. Smith]

Hello All,

I've seen on some other boards advocation of inexpensive surplus arms for defense.

These included the SKS, the AK-47 and its variants, M1 and its variants, the 1903 Springfield, and the Mosin-Nagant.

Ok... so I can see the SKS and AK, and even the M1. I've run through several scenarios, and I just can't think of a time when I might use my M44 for defense in a practical way.

Let's say I wake up in the middle of the night to strange noises within the house. I grab my M44 and affix the bayonet.

I find a couple people pilfering the entertainment center, let's say, and they become hostile and produce weapons. I shoot one in self-defense. Now, I have to work the action. I probably won't have time to do this: First, I'm a lefty and work the action much as that designated marksman on Saving Private Ryan, second, a long action is not the fastest to work. Third, I only have four shots before I must reload, and that takes awhile (comparatively speaking). The four shots comes from not having a round already chambered.

So I can use the bayonet and buttstock. I'm trained in martial arts and martial arts weaponry, and this thing is just another spear/staff to me.

Still, not the best scenario. And, I can't seem to come up with any scenario where I might have to throw on my ammo pouches and shoot at distance.

It seems to me that, while these advocates have a good grip on using the AK and the SKS for home defense, the M44 is less than well-equipped.

I think it would be better to use my "'smithed to perfection" Taurus PT92 loaded with premium HP ammunition or, better yet, my folding-stock, extended magazine, heat shield-equipped, buckshot-loaded, pump action 12 gauge shotgun.

The M44 can stay put for plinking and taking out wild dogs and coyotes at 25-200yds.

Is there something I'm missing about these old warhorses, or are some people just fantasizing about using the bayonet and buttplate?

Thanks,

Josh <><

[DefensiveCarry.com]

[buckeye .45]

Well, as a M44 owner, I'll throw my $0.02 into the pond.

No, I don't forsee the M44 being a practical self defense weapon, that bein said, it is better than just having a stick to shake.

Take your scenario of two folks pilfering your entertainment center. Ok, they get hostile and you smoke-check the first one, and that round then continues through the wall, the next room, the exterior wall, and possibly a whole nother structure. 7.62x54R is a pretty potent round, over-penetration could be a problem.

Now, assuming the muzzle blast didn't act like a flame thrower and singe off the other BG's face, you have to get the ringing from your ears, try to re adjust your vision (granted any weapon has muzzle blast and can damage hearing, but some more so that others), you have to work the action, and Mosin bolts aren't the smoothest.

Also, the bayonet would make negotiating inside a building rather cumbersome.

So for normal HD purposes, a shotty or pistol is much more appropriate. For some sort of survivalist SHTF scenario, a M44 wouldn't be my first choice, but it wouldn't be my last either. Also can be a handy truck/farm/plinking rifle.

Basically I think people are fantasizing, or simply making due with what they have and trying to rationalize it. Once again, if all you can afford is a Mosin, its better than just having a stick to shake, but by no means is it ideal.

[Joshua M. Smith]

That's kinda' what I thought. I like my M44 but I can't justify it over my 12 gauge, or, in some instances, one of my pistols.

Thanks,

Josh <><

[Skygod]

You've pointed out all of the reasons NOT TO USE the M44 as an HD weapon. What pro's vs con's are there to mention ?

Personally I've never seen the long gun as a great HD weapon. Possibly a shotgun, but even better is the pistol. I want all my weapons to run without failure and to run for more than just four shots.

Even an AR is a poor choice, in my humble opinion. The use of frangible rounds would be a must, but the muzzle blast and your ears bleeding after the first two shots are going to make your HD encounter that much more impossible to negotiate if those first two rounds fired are not effective.

I'd venture to say that most homes, let alone an apartment, will only provide for one or two directions to fire from without the possiblity of over penetrating another bedroom, bathroom, or sending a high speed projectile out the window. These shots will be no more than a maximum of 15 meters, if that.

I'd stick with a pistol, with at least 12 round mags, and watch your backdrop.

Just my .02

[HotGuns]

Change in tactics due to the weapon.

First, do not enter the room.

2nd, take up position one room over where you have a clear "sound shot", through the wall.

3rd, fire through wall at approximate location.

4th, reload and empty magazine though wall in various location.

5th, look though holes in wall if possible.The silhouettes in room should now be visible due to the resulting fireballs setting the wall material, curtains and furniture on fire.

If needed, use bayonet to enlarge holes in wall for better visibility.By this time, all perps will either be dead, in the fetal position with their hands on their bleeding gears, or they will be gone having chose to exit due to the horrendous noise.If the bayonet takes to long, the steel butt plate can be used to knock out holes in the sheetrock or paneling.

Step 6...
extinguish fire. If needed, call Fire Dept.

Step7
Notify local police...who will notify the various E.R.s at the local hospitals. They will be looking for perps with singed hair, blackened faces, hair standing on end, bleeding ears and noses, and wide eyes giving the appearance of shell shock. They ought to be easy to locate.

Is there something I'm missing about these old warhorses, or are some people just fantasizing about using the bayonet and buttplate?

Nope. The M44, if you are going to use a rifle, already has an extra set of tools to use if needed.It can be very effective for clearing a room and was proven in WW2.

Of course, if livng in an apartment complex, or subdivision where the houses are built close enough together that one's body function noises become public informatiion, then NONE of the above apply due to hazards of overpentration and fire.







disclaimer for mods or people with no common sense that cant take a joke...
this is meant to be tongue in cheek entertainment... NOT actual advice...

[randytulsa2]

Man, I love my Mosins. I have one all ready to go by the bed. I am kind of in the "don't exit the room" camp. If some idiot is stupid enough to try to come through the bedroom door.....well, some serious medicine can be applied by that old Russian war horse.

The bayonet can be used if a perp attempts a charge after the first round goes off...I guess that would be if there is more than one (the first one would be likely be incapacitated with that old 7.62 X 54, burned up and permanently deaf - - if living).

I think that's viable.

But I think there are weaknesses to the plan....

[raevan]

My M44 and my MAK91 are for emergency hunting, my HD rifle is my Marlin leveraction 44Mag. The Lever action is the best HD rifle because it doesn't Jam and holds 10 rounds of large caliber hollow points, also the magazine can be toped off at any time in the fight without having to wait for it to be empty.

If the M44 was the only rifle I had or the only one with ammo It could be used in a pinch, but it might have to be a club ( it makes a better club then a jammed AR15).

[miklcolt45]

Change in tactics due to the weapon.

First, do not enter the room.

2nd, take up position one room over where you have a clear "sound shot", through the wall.

3rd, fire through wall at approximate location.

4th, reload and empty magazine though wall in various location.

5th, look though holes in wall if possible.The silhouettes in room should now be visible due to the resulting fireballs setting the wall material, curtains and furniture on fire.

If needed, use bayonet to enlarge holes in wall for better visibility.By this time, all perps will either be dead, in the fetal position with their hands on their bleeding gears, or they will be gone having chose to exit due to the horrendous noise.If the bayonet takes to long, the steel butt plate can be used to knock out holes in the sheetrock or paneling.

Step 6...
extinguish fire. If needed, call Fire Dept.

Step7
Notify local police...who will notify the various E.R.s at the local hospitals. They will be looking for perps with singed hair, blackened faces, hair standing on end, bleeding ears and noses, and wide eyes giving the appearance of shell shock. They ought to be easy to locate.

HotGuns, you are my hero. Too funny.

[Wiggy]

Well I do not have a M44, only the full size mosin nagant rifle as well as the nagant 7 shot revolver (I shoot 32H&R magnums out of it, double action is only usable with a two hand grip) but I'll add my two cents. Russian firearms are amazingly solid. And I would have no problem using the M44 if we're talking about defending a farm house or large property rather than a small apartment. Overpenetration would be a major factor. On the plus side, the firearm is long enough to permit fairly accurate shooting from the hip at close range (not exactly a sure thing though). And you could always use it as a passable club.

[flagflyfish]

HotGuns, you are my hero. Too funny.

+100!!!! Hotguns, that was he funniest thing I've read lately!!!!!!!

[bmcgilvray]

Yeah, well said Hotguns! One round touched off indoors using an M44 ought to stun everyone in the house. And singe the fur off of the cat's tail and set Grandma's afgan to smouldering.

You're right Josh. If your M44 is like my son's it's a bit awkward to operate rapidly. Still, it could be done in a pinch and the carbine itself is short enough to negotiate hallways or stairwells.

[JT]

I keep thinking about getting a Mosin-Nagant, but I really don’t want to have to stock up on ammo for another caliber.

[pgrass101]

JT,

The good thing about Mosin Ammo is that it is cheap and can be stored for a long time.

I have a M44 and a 91/30 and Love them. I know that when all of my other guns are dust that my Mosins and M1917 Remington will keep on working.

[JT]

Yeah, the ammo is still reasonably priced. You can't say that about too many calibers these days. The problem is I already have more calibers than I would like, so I am trying (key word here) to limit future purchaes to firearms in calibers I already own.