Fouling Shot?

Fouling Shot?

This is a discussion on Fouling Shot? within the Defensive Rifles & Shotgun Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Hi All, I need to see if I can't get an answer to this question. I clean my Mosin M44 very well after shooting it ...

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Thread: Fouling Shot?

  1. #1
    Senior Member Array Joshua M. Smith's Avatar
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    Fouling Shot?

    Hi All,

    I need to see if I can't get an answer to this question.

    I clean my Mosin M44 very well after shooting it due to corrosive ammo.

    I keep it loaded with commercial Brown Bear ammo in the event that I should need to take a shot at a coyote with it.

    The problem is, I know from target shooting experience that the first shot from this M44 is wild, missing the POA by as much as 6". This could throw me out of a coyote's kill zone.

    I can't fire a fouling shot before I put it away due to the corrosive nature of the ammo. Even when I practice with supposedly non-corrosive commercial stuff, I treat it as corrosive. A lot of it is made in old military factories and wind up with corrosive primers - just whatever's available. The only real advantage to commercial ammo is that it is more consistent in bullet weights and charges. Even the Winchester stuff is made by a foreign company (forget which).

    I plan to begin reloading sometime next year. I do want to make a "scout" sharpshooter Mosin 91/30 that will take custom ammo, and I'd like to reload for a few other rifles I intend to acquire.

    Until then though, how should I handle this? When I have to shoot at coyote, I have to shoot at more than one, so just sighting it for the fouling shot isn't a solution. Every other firearm I have has a fouling shot put through it at the end of the cleaning session unless it's going into storage, but as I said, this is not an option for the Mosin.

    Thoughts?

    Thanks,

    Josh <><


  2. #2
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    Is the Brown Bear ammo corrosively primed? I've heard it was dirty but was thinking it was nominally safe with regards to priming compounds.

    Could some verifiably non-corrosive ammunition be found for your rifle? I'd like to be more help as my son has an M44. He always shoots "surplus du jour" so cleans after each use.

    If you've verified that your rifle flings that first shot a bit "off towards Jones's" with your present ammunition you might go for handloading and fiddling with .30 bullets in the middle ranges of weights available. A different weight or shape can change things.

    Josh, I enjoy seeing your threads on the continuing saga of your M44. You've taken the little carbine seriously and deservedly so. There's a lot of accuracy and punch available in those M44 rifles and the others from the Mosin Nagant family that are current in the firearms market. I harbor secret thoughts that the MN rifle (with no tacti-cool stuff hanging off of it) and 7.62 Russian cartridge is more interesting and would be more entertaining to me than is the AR 15. Whoops, did I actually say that out loud?

    I need to pick up a good one for handloading fun and so my son can sponge some decent ammo on occasion.

    "Get em while they're hot"

  3. #3
    Senior Member Array blueyedevil's Avatar
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    Well untill you can reload, the obvious solution is to crack off a fouler at the start of your hunting trip. I know, not Ideal as you need to be far enough away from your hunting area to not spook whatever's there. But if you can shoot a fouler after cleaning, it shouldn't be too hard to shoot one before you go out hunting. You can also try finishing your cleaning regime with a light coat of Kroil or ME bore conditioner and see if it cleans up your clean/cold bore shot enough to get away with.

  4. #4
    VIP Member Array Redneck Repairs's Avatar
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    As a rule my old mil rifles ( mosin included ) will throw a cold bore shot , but they tend to throw it fairly consistant . What i do is print a small note of the cold ( clean ) bore average ( say + 2.5 hr for 2.5" high right at 100 ) onto the stock to remind me where that first shot is likely to impact . IMHO there is nothing that will make your rifle shoot closer , nor is there a way to fix a cold bore , but a clean cold bore usualy shoots consistant tho off a fouled bore . When dealing with corrosive ammo you have to play the averages , if you do it will get you minute of coyote out to 400 or so in yards .
    Make sure you get full value out of today , Do something worthwhile, because what you do today will cost you one day off the rest of your life .
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  5. #5
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    I am thinking that Brown Bear Rusky ammo is not corrosive, even if dirty.

    Depending on storage conditions for your rifle I'd suggest an experiment. Fire a fouling shot post cleaning, and then unload, with bolt out. Monitor bore appearance over a day or two and also at some stage put a patch thru - but not a tight patch - real loose. See if observation or the patch shows any brown to suggest flash rusting.

    The brief flash rusting that can follow use of poor ammo (corrosive-wise) will IMO be so totally superficial as to not harm the bore - easily scrubbed off by a good clean. It is nothing like pitting which may occur over longer periods and with truly corrosive ammo.

    So - if bore seems unaffected after a bit of storage - keep it fouled and ready. Not saying I'd do this with a super duper bench rest type rifle but on a milsurp I would not worry.
    Chris - P95
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    VIP Member Array Rob72's Avatar
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    I believe Brownells sells a couple of moly-coating kits for your bore. I generally don't get into that stuff, but with an older gun and so-so ammo, it might be worth doing- protection from corrosion and I imagine it would improve your "throw" with the coating. Just a thought...

  7. #7
    Member Array Locopelli's Avatar
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    Rob is correct about using moly. "Fouls" the barrel for you and actually keeps true fouling to a minimum.

    I use this:

    http://www.sentrysolutions.com/SmoothKotekew.shtml

    Works very well.

    The other Sentry Solution products are excellent too BTW. Fast shipping to boot.

  8. #8
    Senior Member Array blueyedevil's Avatar
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    Moly coating is one of those things like SOB carry in the rifle community. I'd reccomend you do your homework before putting it in your barrel.

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    VIP Member Array Rob72's Avatar
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    I've never used it personally, blue- what's the skinny? On a Krieger match, I would be hesitant to put anything "new" down the bore, but if my rebarreled Mauser was not up to snuff....? Just curious.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Array blueyedevil's Avatar
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    well, I don't want to start a big debate about it, but moly can form layers of itself and copper in your barrel making it very, very hard to get out. In addition moly gets very, very hard when it gets hot, the combination of these things ends up putting crap in your throat area that makes a carbon ring look like dust. Moly was kind of a flash in the pan thing for rifles that most competitive shooters avoid like the plauge now. Though there are still some devoted fans. It can still work to some extent if you are only treating the barrel and not your bullets.

  11. #11
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    From all I have heard about Moly treatments - bore or bullets, I'd avoid it!! As has been mentioned it does seem, once in a bore ... real devil to get rid of.
    Chris - P95
    NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.

    "To own a gun and assume that you are armed
    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


    http://www.rkba-2a.com/ - a portal for 2A links, articles and some videos.

  12. #12
    VIP Member Array Supertac45's Avatar
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    I've heard over the years about a fouling shot. I've never seen a differance.
    Les Baer 45
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  13. #13
    Senior Member Array blueyedevil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Supertac45 View Post
    I've heard over the years about a fouling shot. I've never seen a differance.

    Consider yourself lucky. Most centerfire rifles will show a shift in POI from a bare metal bore, to a fouled bore. Of course you have to be shooting at reasonable range and actually have a truly clean bore to see it. If you're not using copper solvents and just patchin' hoppes, your bore isn't being cleaned to bare metal and you would only see a normal cold bore shift.

  14. #14
    VIP Member Array cphilip's Avatar
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    Pretty certain Brown Bear in non corrosive. If that helps.

  15. #15
    VIP Member Array Redneck Repairs's Avatar
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    Sorry i cant help .. however ill say that when i shoot non corrosive ammo i am a beliver in a " fowling shot " when i shoot a gun i have only mil spec for i record the cold bore shot and the difference when its dollars up . Ill match my shots with anyone who cares to shoot , but when you shoot obscure ( corrosive ) crap you have to adjust to cold bore and shoot from that standpoint for long range .
    Make sure you get full value out of today , Do something worthwhile, because what you do today will cost you one day off the rest of your life .
    We only begin to understand folks after we stop and think .

    Criminals are looking for victims, not opponents.

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