Thinking about 1st AR and some questions

[Daps]

Been going back and forth on this. Had decided to get a pocket gun and had posted a question here about the Khars and 3"1911 but made the mistake of looking at AR's again and hope they run some Christmas, end of the year sales,so a few quick questions. This is pretty much a copy n paste from another board

I don't hunt I don't like wild meat taste so I wouldnt use it to hunt even though I have thought about going with an uncle when he comes back this way who hunts that way someone could have the meat, if I could hunt with it what could I hunt with a .223? rabbits? coons?, not sure in TN if you could hunt deer with a .223, I've heard .223 wasnt good enough and then I heard ppl say they use it. Actually all I plan on doing is punching holes with it maybe twice a month, not taking any tactical training, not doing the tacticool setup. I just want one of those evil black guns because I can own one

I figured I better go ahead and do something this year because this time next year dealers may decide to raise prices when we see who's in the running for President and if talk of AWB2 comes up I'm sure stuff will go up.

I know it's not popular but I want the carrying handle on mine. I like the look and it reminds me of my M16 air rifle I had as a kid. Like I said I don't plan on putting all the tactical stuff on it.

I would like to add a cheap scope or reddot/speed dot though. I know I would have to buy a mount rail or something like the one cphilip(glocktalk) has on the pict I posted below. That the type of look I'm going for,




I don't know a lot about scopes/dots but was looking at the following:

Leupold Scope
http://www.swfa.com/pc-3413-99-leupo...iflescope.aspx

Super Sniper
http://www.swfa.com/pc-4304-231-supe...fle-scope.aspx

Burris Speeddot
http://www.swfa.com/pc-8299-629-burr...dot-sight.aspx

Burris Speeddot Tactical
http://www.swfa.com/pc-8301-630-burr...dot-sight.aspx

Any other suggestions that would work on the carry handle. Trying to stay in the $300 or below range for either the scope or dot. Remember I'm not a hunter, not taking any tactical course, just having fun.

Now the other choice is do I buy a complete lower(dont want to do the stipped thing) and complete upper separate and snap them together. I can build a complete Stag for $774 +/- $20(maybe lower with the holidays) including the ffl transfer, background I think the lower has a free mag tossed in for this sale but I'm waiting to Dec to do anything the advantage to this route is I can just buy one or the other which ever goes on sell the cheapest and then buy the other part later and not tie all my $$ up at one time

Seen a Bushmaster at Atlantic Arms for $780.99 + $20s/h +$25 for my FFL transfer/BGCk but what about the rifle tax? How much is it(TN)? I know if you buy a complete rifle you pay a rifle tax but no idea how much it is, but it includes 1 mag and case this price isnt too much off the price I could do a Stag for for, read some place the guy said they had them for $750 at one time
http://www.davidsonsinc.com/consumer...c=50&item_num=


Seen an Olympic Arms for $719.00 $20s/h +$25 for my FFL
http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/prog...asp?Prodid=294
Not bad but it has 4140 chromemoly steel but I heard not to get a chromemoly. Should that matter given my plans? Though the could later change but I doubt it. How good is Olympic Arms

I'm just trying to go the low cost route it's going to be just a toy for me and just to have an AR in my gun collection. I'm a single dad with no C/S coming in. going to have a little free money for Christmas/End of year this year from busting my butt working 2 jobs and want to buy something as a gift for me because I normally feel guilty spending this much on something for me when I could spend the money on my kids(already got the wii and bikes for Christmas and put up), 1 stays with me and then I have one by another woman, talked to her about it and she says you're a good dad and do for your kids you deserve to spend that money on something you want. Maybe I should've kept her and left #2(i have custody of the kid from this one) alone hahahah I'll probably buy a scope/dot sometime next year

Thanks for any input

[DefensiveCarry.com]

[SIXTO]

If it were me, I'd buy a complete rifle from Bushmaster or Rock River. There are lots on different options for you to choose from, check the respective websites for more info there. Spend a few bucks more now, and you will thank yourself down the road should you ever need to sell.

Hunting.... .223 aint the best. I wouldnt recommend it for anything other than coyotes and groundhogs. Its to light for deer and will turn a rabbit inside out destroying the meat.

Scopes... a scope is worth what you pay for it. Often times you're going to end up paying more in glass than you do the rifle. Its a hard pill to swallow, but thats the way it is. I do suggest that you slow down on the scope idea, you'll be suprised how well a AR does with standard sights. A lot of times, a scope is a hinderance rather than a plus on an AR.

[rathos]

I second the bushmaster. I bought this one, and it has functioned flawlessly. Get the A3 model, especially if you want to do optics. I have posted a link below. Not sure if you have one in TN, but I work at Sportsman's Warehouse and we sell them for 929.99 for the A3 model.

http://www.bushmaster.com/catalog_xm15_BCWA3F16.asp

[Tubby45]

Stick with Armalite, Bushmaster, Colt, Rock River Arms, and CMMG Inc. CMMG had a blemished sale-$535 shipped on complete rifles. Check them out and see if the sale is still on(cmmginc.com)

Check your hunting regs in TN if 223 is legal for deer. It is in my state.

A 223 will work fine on deer inside of 150y with a 60gr or heavier soft nose bullet. The Winchester 64gr PP is an excellent choice. Anyone that says a 223 will not kill a deer has never fired a 223 or is a fool. A 223 will kill a 200 pound man and a 200 pound deer. Last time I checked, the deer didn't care what they were killed with.

If you want magnified optics go with a flattop upper. The carry handle is a joke.

[SIXTO]

Stick with Armalite, Bushmaster, Colt, Rock River Arms, and CMMG Inc. CMMG had a blemished sale-$535 shipped on complete rifles. Check them out and see if the sale is still on(cmmginc.com)

Check your hunting regs in TN if 223 is legal for deer. It is in my state.

A 223 will work fine on deer inside of 150y with a 60gr or heavier soft nose bullet. The Winchester 64gr PP is an excellent choice. Anyone that says a 223 will not kill a deer has never fired a 223 or is a fool. A 223 will kill a 200 pound man and a 200 pound deer. Last time I checked, the deer didn't care what they were killed with.

If you want magnified optics go with a flattop upper. The carry handle is a joke.

Nobody said it wouldnt kill one, it just isnt the best choice.

[Daps]

If it were me, I'd buy a complete rifle from Bushmaster or Rock River. There are lots on different options for you to choose from, check the respective websites for more info there. Spend a few bucks more now, and you will thank yourself down the road should you ever need to sell.

Hunting.... .223 aint the best. I wouldnt recommend it for anything other than coyotes and groundhogs. Its to light for deer and will turn a rabbit inside out destroying the meat.

Scopes... a scope is worth what you pay for it. Often times you're going to end up paying more in glass than you do the rifle. Its a hard pill to swallow, but thats the way it is. I do suggest that you slow down on the scope idea, you'll be suprised how well a AR does with standard sights. A lot of times, a scope is a hinderance rather than a plus on an AR.

Thanks Sixto. Yeah I don't plan on getting the scope right away my main thing is the rifle right now. I don't hunt so no lost on shooting those critters. I was just thinking of what I could shoot at besides paper and if I could take if hunting with an uncle if I ever decided to to, my only other rifle is a .22 that was my grandads before he died. as far as the scope since i wont be doing anything fanatical I dont think I'll spend more on glass for it

[Daps]

I second the bushmaster. I bought this one, and it has functioned flawlessly. Get the A3 model, especially if you want to do optics. I have posted a link below. Not sure if you have one in TN, but I work at Sportsman's Warehouse and we sell them for 929.99 for the A3 model.

http://www.bushmaster.com/catalog_xm15_BCWA3F16.asp

Thanks for the link but $900 is more than I'm willing to pay, if I was going to really use it to it's potential I would but right now I'm sitting on less as possible....

[Daps]

Stick with Armalite, Bushmaster, Colt, Rock River Arms, and CMMG Inc. CMMG had a blemished sale-$535 shipped on complete rifles. Check them out and see if the sale is still on(cmmginc.com)

Check your hunting regs in TN if 223 is legal for deer. It is in my state.

A 223 will work fine on deer inside of 150y with a 60gr or heavier soft nose bullet. The Winchester 64gr PP is an excellent choice. Anyone that says a 223 will not kill a deer has never fired a 223 or is a fool. A 223 will kill a 200 pound man and a 200 pound deer. Last time I checked, the deer didn't care what they were killed with.

If you want magnified optics go with a flattop upper. The carry handle is a joke.

I was told that .223 cant be used in TN. I like the carry handle and seeing how it'll be a minute before I put optics on it but doesnt hurt to look thats ok. I don't like the look of flat tops with out optics on it

[Daps]

What's the deal with chromemoly?

I mean that Olympic in my 1st post has one and thats the kind of price range I like but the bush master for $70 more is also an option and probably pushing a first choice if they run specials on them around christmas or new years..I have a few more christmas gifts to buy and I'm calculating to have around $900 left over, i dont have a credit card, clearing that debt up and wont go back to one, cash only, remember single father receiving no C/S I have to have spare $$ in case the little man has to make a doctor visit, plus I need $$ for ammo and at least 1 extra mag

Also any idea how much the rifle tax is? I know you have to pay one on a complete rifle but dont if you buy and upper and lower seperate

[Gun Bunny]

CMMG bargain bin rifles- http://cmmginc.secure-mall.com/shop/...?shop=1&cat=33

About as cheap as you can get and for what you say you need these will do.

[Daps]

Thanks for the link. I booked marked it but as is for $570 I'm taking it means no warranty I'll leave it open as an option but I think I rather put a little more and get a new one with warranty and know which upper and lower I'll get but if I get that guilty spending money on me feeling then I may go the cmmg bargin bin price or no AR at all

[bmcgilvray]

The .223 is used to some extent here in Texas for white tail deer hunting and is quite effective with picked shots and when accurately applied. It would be bad form to try to drive the bullet through the deer at some angles but for broadside or head/neck shots it's fine. I've seen it used and heard of lots of folks down here who have used it successfully.

It will dismantle small game and varmints so be advised.

I'm personally not too keen on AR15's and think they're overrated. A Colt SP-1 covers my AR needs. I happen to like the joke that is the handle. The handle is handy and the rifle carrys really well that way. Don't overlook the capabilities of the sights provided on your rifle. I love shooting the M1, M1A, and AR15 with issue sights and feel the rifles would be awkward with a scope and would lose some flexibility of use. Besides the scope is just another expense to have to fiddle with, keep zero'ed, and perhaps break. A good AR15 will group under 1 1/2 inches at 100 yards with open sights from a bench rest. That's only 6 MOA at 400 yards. There's a lot of good shooting to be had within that capability. A good trigger is more important than a scope to me. I must qualify that to say that I'm farsighted and can see well to shoot. At 50 years of age I can't say how much longer my vision will last. Ask me in a few years and I may be singing the blues and using a scope. The only other suggestions I might make are to add a M1907 sling and learn how to use it to aid your shooting. Perhaps you'd like to try a local high-power match and really learn your rifle. Ask around the gun shops or ranges, check the regional section of the American Rifleman, or go online to the NRA website to find a match near you. You surely wouldn't regret the experience of match shooting for a season. Do not be intimidated, just do it. Your rifle, without all the tacti-cool stuff, will do nicely.

You know, they made up an experimental Sharps rifle during the Civil war that had a coffee grinder in it's stock. I applaud you for leaving off the tacti-cool gadgets. I'd leave off rifle shooting if I had to put up with all that hardware hanging all over my gun. I applaud you for being up front and saying that you're getting an AR15 just because you want to and you're getting it for fun. Rifles and rifle shooting are big fun.

[brian06]

DAPS, me an you are in the same spot and i am so glad you posted this thread.I just wondered about the D.P.M.S. Has anyone got any input?

[Wayne G.]

Very useful info here:
http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=6642
also here:
http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=7355

[SIXTO]

DPMS isnt a bad deal. They make the pieces parts for a lot of the big names.