ooooooooooo 45/70 sounds good.......also the 444 is pretty good also
ooooooooooo 45/70 sounds good.......also the 444 is pretty good also
Okay I went to a gun store today and they were all too happy to let me pick up a few and fiddle with them.
I decided I will be getting the Marlin 1894 in .44 Magnum. The others were good, heck they were all very good, but I just felt like I had more options with the Marlin. They make XS scout mounts for it, it accepts a conventional scope more readily, and for some intangible reason it just fits better. It's also a very nice size. I have slightly short arms, and the length just felt good. I don't care for the hood on the front sight but I was informed they all pretty much come that way but all you have to do is slide it off.
Reasoning the Marlin was about 38 inches long or so, I took a meter stick and tried getting into and out of my truck's cab with it and it wasn't terribly slow or awkward.
I also found to my surprise that the lever on the Marlin is the perfect size for my hand. If it was any smaller it'd be too small to manipulate under stress and if it were any bigger it would be a possible snag hazard. I also remember the takedown for a rifle like this is pretty darn simple... I think all you do is remove the lever screw and take out the bolt and the ejector.
I don't have any real plans to do much with this rifle other than keep it behind my truck seat for the time being, but as I said before where I live a rifle like this would be quite sufficent for taking down pretty much anything native at the short distance shots I'd most likely be taking.
I don't really have any use for the cowboy model. I like the stainless but for what I'm going to do with it, I'm not going to subject it to lots of humidity so it's not like I "need" the stainless. I'll just see what's out there and if it's a good deal or not and if I get a blued one I get a blued one and if I get a stainless one I get a stainless one.
The salesman informed me that he's been at that shop for several years and he's only seen five or six single pistol caliber lever action rifles come up used. They do emerge every so often but people tend to hold onto these rifles. I figure I'll buy new then. The presence of a cross bolt safety doesn't bother me one bit.
They wanted $390.00 for theirs... I didn't take them up on that.
I think when I get a .357 chambered rifle I'll get a Winchester because that's not something I would ever want to consider an optic for.
As for the Ruger they showed me their bolt action 44 Magnum. I actually liked it more than I like their lever action 44 Magnum.
Reckon the Marlin .44 will prove pleasing once you get one.
I do find the lever on mine more comfortable than the Win 94 - which seems a tad ''sharp'' - could make hand a wee bit sore over time with a lotta shooting. There is a certain ''something'' about lever guns - tradition maybe - and they are usually quite light, and eminently totable.
Well and the other thing I like about them is that as much as I love my semiautomatic surplus rifles in the same price range (namely the SKS and the Romanian AK-47 and probably another few if I bothered to consider all the possiblities), for the same $300-$400 dollars the lever gun is made by an American and it's a heck of a lot more trustworthy and accurate IMHO.
The other thing about it is that even in the gravest extreme, I don't think it's a wise move as a civilian to throw a lot of lead downwind. You are probably in a built up area.
Even if you are trying to pin some thug down (the Mark Wilson scenario, may he rest in peace), giving them a close call every time they pop their little head up is adequate. This isn't Iraq where we have a band of twenty insurgents trying to launch a mortar at us and keeping them all on their faces is vital so that the air and armor support can move in.
The lever action rifle seems ideal for circumstances like these, especially in the caliber I've chosen because the capacity is plenty high enough for some insane extended shootout scenario, not to mention reloading a single round is pretty quick, and it will encourage its user to carefully place his shots.
Honestly under a lot of stress even the best trained operators, real combat experts who have seen the elephant, can be lead to spray and pray. My uncle was a LEO for several years and his department was populated by very atypical officers who all loved to shoot. These were guys who flew places to go to high priced training seminars. Two of them had to shoot a suspect in the course of my uncle's career, and they both emptied their magazines into the perpetrator.
For a civilian who probably will never have to face a situation like that more than once if not at all, a firearm which does not allow one to simply pull the trigger repeatedly is worth some consideration. Consider especially the user whose firearm exposure and experience is limited. If you gave my brother a semiautomatic rifle and told him to fire at a target in combat, he'd expend the entire magazine and hit maybe once because he doesn't know any better.
For many years in our history the pistol caliber lever action carbine in the hands of lawmen and homesteaders kept law and order. Just because it's the year 2005 doesn't mean it doesn't work any more.
Euc...Thats a great choice.
And P95, I do use a .430 sizer for the cast bullets. I posted that earlier but for some reason it didnt "take".
Euc...have you given any consideration to the semi auto Ruger .44 magnum ?
Short and sweet and hard hitters. They hold 5 I think ,total.
Ahhh thx HG - thought that was probably the case. Gonna have to pick up a .430 sizer methinks. Saves me a bunch home loading those.
Well, I must be a fan too, I recently bought a Beretta CX-4 Storm in 9mm, because like your Rugers, the Storm uses the same mags as my Beretta 92G Vertec.Quote:
Originally Posted by CombatEffective
I'm going to drift from Euc's PCC (pistol caliber carbine) purpose a bit, but...
I had the "opportunity" to hear (without muffs) a 124 gn Gold Dot +P and a 135 gn .40 cal Corbon +P both fired "indoors". The sound intensity difference between the 9mm and the .40 cal. was unbelievable! I can only imagine the sound intensity of a .223 cal "indoors". Hence, I thought, I don't ever want to hear a .223 fired indoors w/o hearing protection. I decided right then and there that the .223 as a home defense gun was "out". I know, you're not supposed to hear the muzzle blast under life threatening conditions. Well you may not notice the muzzle blast, but I doubt you'll be hear anything afterwards for the next 30 minutes or so.
Anyway I decided on the Storm as my home defense carbine, even though I'll probably have a pistol with me if "it" happens.
None of that's Euc's problem though. I too, have long thought about a lever action carbine and I may get one yet. Wonder if anyone makes one in 9mm?
Tangle - there is not - to my knowledge - any lever that'll handle 9mm. Not so sure I'd be that enthusiasticv to be honest - somehow rimless seems less than ideal. That said - I do enjoy also my Camp 45, semi.
I have a Camp 9 too which runs quite well and like you have a CX-4, tho not for SD - mine is almost all fun!!! I call these carbines ''Flash Gordon'' guns cos of looks but hey - a more ergonomic carbine I have yet to find. Of course 15+1 in that for me would certainly be considered any day for defensive use, despite what some folks say (deprecatingly) about pistol cal carbines, 9mm in particular.
I dont know Chris Buck Rogers Came to mind before flash gordon but it fits one of them ... That Beretta is a sweet shooter glad i got one
The Storm has some nice things going for it. I like the rail attachments for it.
For some levergun fighting info check these threads:
and one about scope options:
Wow thanks CE. :biggrin:
I know Southnarc used to have a PSP unit on fighting with a lever action rifle that was really good and really easy to implement.
The PSP was written from a total SHTF scenario and it assumes you start with an unloaded rifle and cartridges if I recall correctly. I remember a lot of the tips and tricks he uses come from knowing the manual of arms very well.
I seem to recall his opinion was that someone who bothered to learn how to work such a rifle and was so equipped had an excellent chance of coming out on top in even some of the worst scenarios. He also stated however that he felt like he was improvising by using a rifle like that or something that effect. I am going off memory here so I may be wrong.
I think the rimless catridge carbines are neat, and I even think that for certain situations they represent a needed step up in firepower. They don't really appeal to me a much though in that the revolver chamberings have so much more diversity. I like the thought of the .44 Magnum chambered carbine being able to use anything from my 200 grain .44 Special Gold Dots to 240 grain JSP loads and more.
Plus the .44 Magnum and .357 Magnum in long gun makes more sense to me. These catridges in many loads can be very hard to control in a handgun. .357 Magnum is a catridge I will always love but those 125 grainers kick pretty good.
I do have to admit a Ruger PC9 with the Ghost Rings would be boatloads of silly fun... I already have everything else for it after all.
I'd take one if you gave it to me but for some reason I don't really want it as much as I would the lever or bolt action.Quote:
Originally Posted by HotGuns
Plus I've never actually seen one but I know it exists.
I think that'd be a really neat gun to have though.
I attended a police shotgun instructor course acouple of years ago. I got to playing around with my 336 one day and figured that most of the techniques would work with the levergun as well and they did with slight modification. It works well with the long .30-30 cartidges, but if you watch some of the CAS guys like Richard "Tequilla" Young you'll see that it works well with the pistol round cartridges as well.
I keep the rounds in my butt cuff pointed bullet up. I use those to feed the mag tube. I practice loading while moving and while in cover with that method. I have a 20 round rifle cartridge belt that I wear around my belly just above my gun/emergency belt. In it I keep the rounds in it bullet pointed down so that I can grab them and load over the top like a combat shotgunning single load technique.
I have three options to choose from depending on the situation. I keep my P95 and a belt ready that holds four mags. I also have a blade on it and room for some other things. I plan on putting a first aid kit and such on it. I keep the rifle cartrige belt and a shotgun round belt handy. Depending on the situation I strap on the belt and grab the appropriate long gun and cartidge belt.
To kind of add to what you suggest,
I was always taught that should you have to reload a lever action rifle in the middle of whatever, you should support the rifle against your shoulder with your strong hand while holding the action open and then reload with the weak hand by going over the top of the receiver, starting by putting one in the chamber if there's not one there. The idea is that you can still follow your target this way, and as soon as you see a shot you can close the action and fire.
The other part of this theory is that you should keep "topping off" the rifle as opportunities arise.
At least that's the theory. I don't know if that's tactically correct but it sounds good. :biggrin:
I've heard rumors of CAS techniques where some guys actually do a double load, wherein they load two cartridges at once, putting one in the chamber as if though they were going to fire a single shot and the other in the magazine. I've never seen this demonstrated in person and I don't know if it's a viable combat technique.
I don't want to put a cartridge sleeve on the buttstock because I think that messes up the handling. What I think I will do is get a catridge belt and fold it up and put it in the map pocket of my driver's side door. I'll open it up so that I can throw it over my shoulder and go. I don't see any reason I can't store the rifle loaded with the safety on and the hammer at half cock if I so desire.
You know I've always wondered why they don't issue lever action .30-30s for Police use. It seems like a lot of these high round count police shootouts you hear about could have been solved easily by the availability of such a gun.
I own precisely two pistol caliber carbines.
They're both Uzis.
Accurate as needed out to 100m - pidgeons and pop cans are dead in the water. Out to 150m, human silhouettes are toast.
And it's fun.
I keep wanting a pistol caliber lever but realize it's just a want - I'd likely never shoot it much.