Shotgun for HD.

This is a discussion on Shotgun for HD. within the Defensive Rifles & Shotgun Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; I have a single female relative that is moving to NY. It will be 6 months before she can apply for a handgun permit (she ...

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Thread: Shotgun for HD.

  1. #1
    Distinguished Member Array Fitch's Avatar
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    Shotgun for HD.

    I have a single female relative that is moving to NY. It will be 6 months before she can apply for a handgun permit (she has a PA CCW), 6 more before she might have an answer. So her .357 magnum will be staying here. She will be getting a shotgun since long guns are no paper work problem.

    Cost, recoil, and noise are an issue, so it will be a 20g Mossberg 500 pump. I'll have some practice sessions with her starting with skeet ammo and working up to HD loads. We have that figured out.

    The uncertainty is where to keep it so it is both ready for action and yet not sitting around loaded. For her .357 she has a nice little bedside safe operated with an easy touch in the dark 6 button sequence to open it.

    My question: Is there a similar, or equivelant, bed side safe for a loaded shotgun?

    There aren't any kids, but she might have company and doesn't want the loaded gun out in the open. She says it has to be loaded to be useful. I absolutely agree.

    Thanks
    Fitch

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    Ex Member Array Ram Rod's Avatar
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    IMO--the pump shotgun should be one that is not kept with one in the chamber, but kept with the chamber empty and the safety off. Then chamber a round once the weapon is taken to hand. The 20 gauge is nice for this scenario, but they do make defensive, reduced recoil loads for the 12ga as well. I also suggest not getting a pistol grip and keeping the original full length stock--synthetic would be better. An open bore, or cylinder choke barrel in legal length or about 18 1/4". Stow the long gun in a corner beside an entertainment center or bookshelf where it cannot be seen from the main entrance of the abode, from the living room or other main gathering area, nor seen from other likely avenues of approach (such as after guests use the bathroom and such). No reason 'Mr. pump' can't go with the owner to bed and lean up against the headboard. I was not aware there was ever any "paperwork issue" keeping one's pistol for defense when in their own home as long as the firearm is legally theirs and not stolen. Re-assess your thinking on this.

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    Senior Member Array rachilders's Avatar
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    Just remember to be sure of your target!!

    "... Americans... we want a safe home, to keep the money we make and shoot bad guys." -- Denny Crane

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    VIP Member Array matiki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ram Rod View Post
    IMO--the pump shotgun should be one that is not kept with one in the chamber, but kept with the chamber empty and the safety off. Then chamber a round once the weapon is taken to hand. The 20 gauge is nice for this scenario, but they do make defensive, reduced recoil loads for the 12ga as well. I also suggest not getting a pistol grip and keeping the original full length stock--synthetic would be better.
    My wife and I keep five loaded with an empty chamber and the safety off. We use reduced recoil 'winlite' loads (buckshot loaded, slugs on the butt stock). My wife shoots best with a LOP of around 13.5" (she's got short arms) and she likes the pistol grip so we bought a Mossberg 500 12ga. Tactical with the adjustable stock. In our bedroom the gun is exposed, downstairs (in the unlikely event we take it instead of a pistol) we keep it in the pantry where it hides in a corner easy to reach but difficult to see.
    "Wise people learn when they can; fools learn when they must." - The Duke of Wellington

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    Distinguished Member Array Fitch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ram Rod View Post
    IMO--the pump shotgun should be one that is not kept with one in the chamber, but kept with the chamber empty and the safety off. Then chamber a round once the weapon is taken to hand. The 20 gauge is nice for this scenario, but they do make defensive, reduced recoil loads for the 12ga as well. I also suggest not getting a pistol grip and keeping the original full length stock--synthetic would be better. An open bore, or cylinder choke barrel in legal length or about 18 1/4". Stow the long gun in a corner beside an entertainment center or bookshelf where it cannot be seen from the main entrance of the abode, from the living room or other main gathering area, nor seen from other likely avenues of approach (such as after guests use the bathroom and such). No reason 'Mr. pump' can't go with the owner to bed and lean up against the headboard. I was not aware there was ever any "paperwork issue" keeping one's pistol for defense when in their own home as long as the firearm is legally theirs and not stolen. Re-assess your thinking on this.
    Owning, or even possessing, a handgun in NY state is illegal with out a NYS pistol permit. One has to have a permit to legallyl possess a handgun even in the home. The permit can be obtained but it takes most, if not all of, a year for one moving into the state.

    http://www.monroecounty.gov/clerk-pistolpermits.php

    If you move there from out of state you still need an NYS permit for the guns you bring with you to avoid being arrested for illegal possession - to avoid problems they should be checked with the local PD until the permit is obtained (making arrangements in advance is a good idea), or kept out of state and shipped to an FFL after the permit is obtained. They grudgingly allow (only because of the federal law requires it) people to drive through with them stopping only for overnight on the way from some place they can legally possess a handgun to someplace else they can legally possess a handgun.

    I agree the pump shotgun might be kept with out a round in the chamber, but I'm a big fan of something that is ready to pick up and shoot. The Mossberg has a nice easily operated thumb safety on it.

    The shotgun, to be a legal long gun in NY, must have a real full length stock on it - and so it will. She will buy the gun here in PA, and leave the pistol grip here in PA. The 20ga Mossberg 500 Persuader/Cruiser pump (specially designed to be a defense shotgun with 16-1/2" barrel, synthetic stock, and cylinder choke) comes with both a synthetic full stock and optional pistol grip replacement. The pistol grip is not legal in NY with out a pistol permit.

    I see no reason to look for reduced recoil 12ga loads - at 20 to 25 foot distances a 2-3/4" 20ga cartridge with #3 buckshot out of a non-magnum 20ga is very effective.

    What I'd like to find is a finger print unlocking riot length (16-1/2" barrel) single shotgun case that will slide under the bed. Nobody but her needs to know it is there, nobody.

    Fitch

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    Member Array lgsracer's Avatar
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    Check out lifejacket gun locks, but they are key only.

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    Ex Member Array Ram Rod's Avatar
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    The Mossberg has a nice easily operated thumb safety on it.
    Indeed it does. Thanks for enlightening me on the laws of New York. I didn't know all that. More reasons for me to praise the Lord for living where I do. Sounds like you've got your bases covered on the shotgun then.

    I agree the pump shotgun might be kept with out a round in the chamber, but I'm a big fan of something that is ready to pick up and shoot.
    If it's to be kept in the case when nobody's home then that's good. But what would be the use of a condition one SD weapon in a case? Seconds count.

    What I'd like to find is a finger print unlocking riot length (16-1/2" barrel) single shotgun case that will slide under the bed. Nobody but her needs to know it is there, nobody.

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    Have you thought about a pistol caliber carbine?

    Light recoil and effective round. She can get a .357 lever action carbine for less than $300. Pistol and rifle have the same rounds?
    “You can sway a thousand men by appealing to their prejudices quicker than you can convince one man by logic.”

    ― Robert A. Heinlein,

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    Distinguished Member Array Fitch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ram Rod View Post
    Indeed it does. Thanks for enlightening me on the laws of New York. I didn't know all that. More reasons for me to praise the Lord for living where I do.
    I got to agree. I love PA gun laws. The gal moving north has a CCW here.

    Sounds like you've got your bases covered on the shotgun then.
    If it's to be kept in the case when nobody's home then that's good. But what would be the use of a condition one SD weapon in a case? Seconds count.
    I agree again. Right now she has things covered with her .357 loaded in a bed side safe that she can lay her fingers on and have the gun in a second or two. I'm trying to find that level of secure access for a shot gun. So far I haven't found it.

    I might have to build one.

    Fitch

  11. #10
    Distinguished Member Array Fitch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pgrass101 View Post
    Have you thought about a pistol caliber carbine?

    Light recoil and effective round. She can get a .357 lever action carbine for less than $300. Pistol and rifle have the same rounds?
    Yes - the pistol caliber carbine has been considered. It's a good suggestion. I have an M1 Carbine she could take with her. But, she will be living in an apartment and I think it is more gun than one ought to be firing with walls that aren't very thick. Too much penetration. The shotgun seemed like a better choice.

    She'd still have the access issue with a carbine. I've been all over the WEB looking for somebody that makes a finger print or fast 4 button opening shot gun safe. Haven't found one yet.

    Fitch

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    VIP Member Array Supertac45's Avatar
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    I'd mount it up under the mattress against the bed rail.
    Les Baer 45
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  13. #12
    Ex Member Array Ram Rod's Avatar
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    I agree again. Right now she has things covered with her .357 loaded in a bed side safe that she can lay her fingers on and have the gun in a second or two. I'm trying to find that level of secure access for a shot gun. So far I haven't found it.

    I might have to build one.

    Fitch
    By all means, the best of luck to you in that respect. Likely it would be costly, and it's sad to report to what extent one needs to go for security and peace of mind. Sort of like why 'healthy foods' cost more than real foods. Still---one should never compromise their morals or ideals for anything. While one who is on a quest seldom rests until the objective is found, I still think there are alternatives for your situation. Check the laws in your particular location, and maybe pertaining to part-time residents (for now---not actually knowing the whole scene)--like a college student who is not an actual state resident and wishes to be assigned rights from her home state while there temporarily? There are so many loopholes in laws that BG's take advantage of all the time, surely the persevering, 'law-abiding citizen' could find one if need be.

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    Senior Member Array Chuck R.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fitch View Post

    My question: Is there a similar, or equivelant, bed side safe for a loaded shotgun?
    Yes there is. I keep my Benelli in a V-Line long gun case. It has a simplex push button combination. I set mine to be the same as my pistol case in my nightstand. If she gets the "large" there's enogh room for ammo and extras.



    Chuck
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    VIP Member Array AZ Husker's Avatar
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    Rem 870 12 with an eight round capacity for me. I disagree with most however, I keep an empty COCKED chamber with the safety ON. Knowing and practicing with this setup, I can bring it into action in milleseconds. BUT...an unauthorized user unfamiliar with the manual of arms would have a hard time getting it to fire. Too many steps. It leans up against my headboard. I live alone, but if company is coming over, it simply goes into the closet.
    Tracy

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