Help with Optics for a Bushmaster M4 A3

Help with Optics for a Bushmaster M4 A3

This is a discussion on Help with Optics for a Bushmaster M4 A3 within the Defensive Rifles & Shotgun Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; I have a Bushmaster M4A3 AR15 and I'm am enjoying it immensely. I'm looking into getting some kind of scope or Red Dot optic for ...

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Thread: Help with Optics for a Bushmaster M4 A3

  1. #1
    Member Array 77bob's Avatar
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    Help with Optics for a Bushmaster M4 A3

    I have a Bushmaster M4A3 AR15 and I'm am enjoying it immensely.

    I'm looking into getting some kind of scope or Red Dot optic for it and could use some recommendations. It has a removable handle, but I have seen some optics mounted on the handle. Any pros/cons for mounting on the handle?

    Thanks!


  2. #2
    Senior Member Array jualdeaux's Avatar
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    First, do you really use the handle? If you get a BUIS (back up iron sight) and something like an EOTech or Aimpoint, you have the best of both worlds. You have the fast pickup of the optic and you can still use the iron sights as they co-witness through the optic.

  3. #3
    Member Array 77bob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jualdeaux View Post
    First, do you really use the handle? If you get a BUIS (back up iron sight) and something like an EOTech or Aimpoint, you have the best of both worlds. You have the fast pickup of the optic and you can still use the iron sights as they co-witness through the optic.
    Not really. Any recommendations on a BUIS and an EOTech?

    Thanks!

  4. #4
    Senior Member Array Sergeant Mac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 77bob View Post
    Any pros/cons for mounting on the handle?
    Pro: Ease of removal, can use factory iron sights if you use a see-through mount

    Con: EXTREMELY high sight plane severely limits the distances at which the sight will be "on target", three points of attachment (carrying handle to receiver, scope mount to carrying handle, scope to scope mount) provide more "wiggle room" for misalignment

  5. #5
    Senior Member Array Skygod's Avatar
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    Carry handle options are a just a bad idea all around. As Sergeant Mac explained. I'd only use the carry handle if it was a last resort and was a FIXED carry handle. otherwise you have a flattop/Picitinny rail for a lot of options.

    I like the Aimpoint CompM series and I like the EOtech 500 series. The mounting solution is where you'll want to be confident. I only use LaRue Tactical mounts for both the Aimpoint CompM3 and my EOtech 512 and 553. Both can be run on LaRue mounts with the Aimpoint 3x multiplier behind them with the right mounts.

    The use of the LaRue "Pivot" mount gives you the ability to pivot the Aimpoint 3x out of the way for CCO applications. Personally I like this solution better than mounting an ACOG 4x. It's pretty damn hard to look through a 4x optic and engage multiple targets at CCO distances. Hence the reason that most with an ACOG use the J Point or Doctor optic riding on top the ACOG with a separate mount. The Doctor sits up pretty high and your sight plane is 6" from bore axis and it's not incredibly friendly to have raise your head from the cheed purchase to acquire the Doctor optic for CCO shots. I just don't like when I can have the best of both worlds with little bore axis to sight plane compensation with my current set up which is the EOtech or Aimpoint Red dot with the Aimpoint 3x magnifier running behind it on a pivot mount from LaRue Tactical.

    I also use the static mount for the 3x magnifier on the EOtech mount and leave it just a tad looser so It can be taken off in a matter of two to three second to transition to CCO applications.

    Lot's to look at and they aren't cheap, none of them.
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    Member Array NE45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skygod View Post
    Carry handle options are a just a bad idea all around. As Sergeant Mac explained. I'd only use the carry handle if it was a last resort and was a FIXED carry handle. otherwise you have a flattop/Picitinny rail for a lot of options.

    I like the Aimpoint CompM series and I like the EOtech 500 series. The mounting solution is where you'll want to be confident. I only use LaRue Tactical mounts for both the Aimpoint CompM3 and my EOtech 512 and 553. Both can be run on LaRue mounts with the Aimpoint 3x multiplier behind them with the right mounts.

    The use of the LaRue "Pivot" mount gives you the ability to pivot the Aimpoint 3x out of the way for CCO applications. Personally I like this solution better than mounting an ACOG 4x. It's pretty damn hard to look through a 4x optic and engage multiple targets at CCO distances. Hence the reason that most with an ACOG use the J Point or Doctor optic riding on top the ACOG with a separate mount. The Doctor sits up pretty high and your sight plane is 6" from bore axis and it's not incredibly friendly to have raise your head from the cheed purchase to acquire the Doctor optic for CCO shots. I just don't like when I can have the best of both worlds with little bore axis to sight plane compensation with my current set up which is the EOtech or Aimpoint Red dot with the Aimpoint 3x magnifier running behind it on a pivot mount from LaRue Tactical.

    I also use the static mount for the 3x magnifier on the EOtech mount and leave it just a tad looser so It can be taken off in a matter of two to three second to transition to CCO applications.

    Lot's to look at and they aren't cheap, none of them.
    +1

    Also, when you look at any of the LaRue stuff, mounts ect you will have sticker shock..trust me, they are pricy but learn from my mistake and if you need a mount, start out with a LaRue, its probably where you'll end up anyway and the crap you throw away getting to that point will add up too.
    One of the fundamental truths of the universe is that there isn't anything that cannot be improved with the addition of pirates, ninjas, strippers, midgets or monkeys.

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    Senior Member Array bobcat35's Avatar
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    i've seen 1x crosshair sights before and would recomend one of those if you can find it. simply because it wouldn't require batteries(which tend to run up the operating cost of the rifle and die at the wrong moment) and you can place an additional magnification optic behind them for long range without throwing off your zero. that in mind on my ar i have an acog mounted on the carry handle as a reserve optic and a bushnell holosight with an inplace buis for when the batteries die just before i take a shot.
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    Senior Member Array allenruger's Avatar
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    I put a Aimpoint CompML2 on my Bushmaster a couple of years ago. Mounted it on the rail and not on the carry handle. Personally, I like this setup quite a bit for what it's worth. I like to mount optics just a close to the barrel as I possibly can for accuracy. Also, having it mounted way up on the carry handle just lends it to getting bumped around IMHO.
    Allen

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  9. #9
    Senior Member Array Skygod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bobcat35 View Post
    i've seen 1x crosshair sights before and would recomend one of those if you can find it. simply because it wouldn't require batteries(which tend to run up the operating cost of the rifle and die at the wrong moment) and you can place an additional magnification optic behind them for long range without throwing off your zero. that in mind on my ar i have an acog mounted on the carry handle as a reserve optic and a bushnell holosight with an inplace buis for when the batteries die just before i take a shot.
    This is BS !!!

    Why do batteries alway's come up in these conversations. Aimpoint lithiums run for 50,000 hours on single battery on a brightness setting of "7" and 500,000 hours in any of the NV settings. I can literally and have literally left an Aimpoint CompM2 on for two years straight and it's still staring at me with a bright red dot. If I'm going out on a mission, then I'm going to replace my battery and check it's operation prior to kitting up.

    And how does it "run up the operating cost of the rifle"

    EOtechs get roughly 1200 hours out of AA lithium batteries and they have an 4 hour and 8 hour shut off system to preserve battery life. Again, if I'm even remotely close to battery life disruption I'm going to change out my battery's before kitting up. Plus I've three sets of AA's in my butt stock if our day turns into night and then morning.

    Leave your optic off the carry handle. Get a decent back up iron sight for the rear. Troy, Midwest or A.R.M.S and choose your optics.

    By the way, I've got an Aimpoint CompM3 that is on an LMT rifle and it has been turned on since Febuary of last year. It's still running red and has at least 3-4 more years before it's going to die.
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    Skygod - I'm with you. Batteries can die, of course - you could have a bad battery to start with, for instance - but the battery life on these modern cells and optics is very, very long. Plus, with a BUIS system you're right back in the fight should you have the very bad luck to lose power right when you need it (and with the EOTech, at least, you've still got a really big rear sight aperture to use in an emergency!)
    A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands - love a woman, build a house, change his son's diaper - his hands remember the rifle.

  11. #11
    Member Array C4iGrant's Avatar
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    I personally would ditch the Carry Handle. This will save you some weight.

    Picking the correct optic really depends on what you want to do with it. For home defense, the Aimpoint and EOTech are king. If you want an optic that will allow you to do a little of everything, a 1-4 variable optic is a good choice as it will let you do close range to mid-range.

    We offer forum member discounts on EOTech, Aimpoint and Trijicon so drop us a line if you need any help.


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  12. #12
    Senior Member Array Skygod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OPFOR View Post
    Skygod - I'm with you. Batteries can die, of course - you could have a bad battery to start with, for instance - but the battery life on these modern cells and optics is very, very long. Plus, with a BUIS system you're right back in the fight should you have the very bad luck to lose power right when you need it (and with the EOTech, at least, you've still got a really big rear sight aperture to use in an emergency!)
    Good points !

    Thanks Grant for the discounts. Everyone should take up Grant on his optics purchases.
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    Member Array 77bob's Avatar
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    Thanks for the tips everyone. I'm taking the handle off, going with an EOTech/LaRue system with a BUIS. Now to start saving for it. :)

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    One technique I've seen used (though I don't do it myself) is to fasten the carry handle to a side rail on the fore end. The idea is that, that way, it's always with the weapon should all your other sighting systems fail. I just carried it in my pack or vest - I had/have enough stuff hanging from my fore end already, but if yours is uncluttered and you don't mind a few more ounces out there, it's an option.
    A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands - love a woman, build a house, change his son's diaper - his hands remember the rifle.

  15. #15
    VIP Member Array aus71383's Avatar
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    I've done that - only when the idiots in the armory wouldn't issue them out without the carry handles. You have to keep the thing somewhere...

    Austin

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