Rem 870 Express - Home Defense ammo? - Page 2

Rem 870 Express - Home Defense ammo?

This is a discussion on Rem 870 Express - Home Defense ammo? within the Defensive Rifles & Shotgun Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Originally Posted by Musketeer 00 Buck or Slug. Nobody will ever debate its potential to end a fight. For those who talk about "nasty shallow ...

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Thread: Rem 870 Express - Home Defense ammo?

  1. #16
    Senior Member Array Tom357's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Musketeer View Post
    00 Buck or Slug. Nobody will ever debate its potential to end a fight.

    For those who talk about "nasty shallow wounds" with birdshot I have to ask this, what stops a determined attacker?

    1. CNS damage
    2. Massive Blood Loss resulting in unconsciousness.
    3. Structural Failure (broken bones resulting in an inability to physically continue the fight).

    Birdshot will not do #1. It has little chance of accomplishing #2 in a short amount of time because it does not reliably reach things deep inside the body which bleed FAST (Organs and major arteries). There is no way it will accomplish #3 (but neither will most other shotty loads short of a slug.)

    Without those three sure methods of stopping the fight you are depending on the will of the attacker to fail. I would rather not depend on an attacker's will failing.
    I spoke about nasty shallow wounds from birdshot, but you are mistaken if you think I was, in any way, recommending birdshot. My post makes no such recommendation. That said, birdshot does, indeed, make nasty, shallow wounds. I agree with you, that birdshot is insufficient as a defensive round, and I would not rely on it. My very first call as an EMT was for a self-inflicted shotgun wound to the chest. That person used #8 shot in a 12g. The barrel was flush with the chest, and the entry wound was the diameter of the barrel. There was no blood. There was no exit wound. Shot had dispersed through the torso from the points of the shoulders to the pelvis, and the core of the shot took a chunk of the aorta as it turned out. However, from home defense distances, #8 shot would not be effective, IMHO.

    My standard load for my Nova was a magazine full of #1 buck, plus 3 rounds of #00 Federal tactical, and 3 Federal tactical slugs in the sidesaddle, and it will be for my Super Nova, as well.

    There are some who, out of concerns about overpenetration, subscribe to the concept of loading the first few rounds with birdshot, followed by heavier shot. The thought being that if you miss with the first shot, the birdshot is less likely to overpenetrate walls. I prefer training and practicing to hit my target, and using a more effective load. For one thing, I don't like the idea of having to count shots in a stressful situation, to know what I am putting on my target. I much prefer having #00 and slugs on-hand for manual load, if escalation from my preferred load is required.
    - Tom
    You have the power to donate life.


  2. #17
    Senior Member Array Musketeer's Avatar
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    I agree with you Tom357. The idea that I am going to make the first rounds in the shotty (those most likely to be needed) the least effective boggles my mind...

    A crossman airgun can kill but none of us are going to depend on it. I say 00 or slug is more than capable of stopping any aggressor if used properly. I am not going to argue that #1 will not do the job, it almost certainly will. My position though is simply that if someone wants to know what will absolutely work my first two fit the bill and nobody will say it won't. There are few enough things we can all agree on but the ability of 00 and a slug to stop the fight is one of them.

    Everyone can always find 00 at the store.

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