Semi vs. Pump

This is a discussion on Semi vs. Pump within the Defensive Rifles & Shotgun Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Hey, I have a shotgun, a Mossberg 590. I like it, it's comfortable after I sawed off the back of the stock, and I can ...

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Thread: Semi vs. Pump

  1. #1
    Member Array Lange's Avatar
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    Semi vs. Pump

    Hey,

    I have a shotgun, a Mossberg 590. I like it, it's comfortable after I sawed off the back of the stock, and I can fire pretty quickly.

    But, after reading the stopping power thing in the other section, I'm beginning to think a shotgun is the best weapon for close quarters because you're putting multiple holes into people with decent penetration.

    So, I'm turning my focus on building a shotgun.

    I thought about a Saiga-12, but I'm having a hard time seeing the advantage since the kick of a shotgun forces me to re-aquire my target. By this time, I already have another round ready in my Mossberg so I'm not sure I see any advantage...

    Any thoughts or opinions? I'll drop an extra $1000.00 to build a Saiga-12, but if there is no advantage, I'm not going to bother.

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  3. #2
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    There are advantages no doubt, but there are diasadvantages too. I'd stick with the pump and really learn how to run it well.
    "Just blame Sixto"

  4. #3
    Senior Member Array Packman73's Avatar
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    Pumps ALWAYS function. I just wouldn't trust my life to an auto. I agree with SIXTO, that 590 is an awesome weapon, master it and don't worry.

  5. #4
    Ex Member Array F350's Avatar
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    If pumps ALWAYS function why do they make an 870 loading lever that is slit all the way to the end for inserting a knife (or similar object) for clearing short stroke jams????????????????????? When I shot competitivly in the 80s and 90s I saw more shotgun jams with pumps than autos, I ran a dressed out 1100 and NEVER had a problem. Keep it cleaned and lubed properly and use top quality ammo and there should be no problems.

    Then there is the very real possibility of a "Miami shootout" situation where one arm is taken out of action and the FBI agent is sitting down with his pump gun between his legs trying to work the action and stay in the fight, an auto could have kept running without a problem. IMHO having to use the shottie with a disabled arm in the real world is more probable than a jam with a modern outo.

    Quick question............How many of you guys advocating using a pump shotgun because of fear of jams....are carrying an auto handgun and not a revolver???????????????

  6. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by F350 View Post

    Quick question............How many of you guys advocating using a pump shotgun because of fear of jams....are carrying an auto handgun and not a revolver???????????????
    Its apples and oranges. Revolvers jam, and when they do, there is no tap rack and back in the fight. I can clear almost any type of malfunction in a S/A shotgun quickly, but anybody with a little knowledge can in a pump.
    I dont fear jams in an auto, I use one for clays and hunting and never had an issue... I just like the versatility of a pump, when the SHTF. A properly ran pump will eat any ammo found, no matter if the gun is dirty or not. They typically are an easy fix to when they do go down...

    all that said, I do prefer an auto shotgun. Its just that if there was only going to be one in the collection, I'd rather it be a quality pump.
    "Just blame Sixto"

  7. #6
    Senior Member Array Fast Cloud's Avatar
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    Saigas are great...here's why...detachable magazines. Also, autos are faster than pumps...the end. Re-aquiring a target with a shotgun will be that much faster if you don't have to pump. By stocking up on magazines, you'll be much better prepared when the zombies come over the hill. All that said...I own a Benelli Super Nova Tactical pump. Why?? They're cheaper, and it takes a miracle to jam one. Would I rather have a Saiga?? You bet. If you can swing the sticker price I say jump on it. An automatic shotgun is no more likely to jam than an automatic pistol...it's all about keeping them cleaned. I'd trust my life to a nice Saiga with no hesitation. (or a Mossberg 930spx) A Remington?? Well that's another story.
    "Any rationally thinking person is armed" ---Hinds Co. constable John Lewis

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  8. #7
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    One thing about semi shotguns is... when they decide to give you hell, they will make your life miserable. We had one Saiga and one Benelli go stupid today while my Mossy 835 went through three set of shooters plus shooting bird and slugs without a hiccup.
    You have to make the shot when fire is smoking, people are screaming, dogs are barking, kids are crying and sirens are coming.
    Randy Cain.

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  9. #8
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    faster is not always better; but I've seen some decently skilled 870 shooters that can cycle pretty darn fast.
    "Just blame Sixto"

  10. #9
    Senior Member Array Packman73's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by F350 View Post
    If pumps ALWAYS function why do they make an 870 loading lever that is slit all the way to the end for inserting a knife (or similar object) for clearing short stroke jams????????????????????? When I shot competitivly in the 80s and 90s I saw more shotgun jams with pumps than autos, I ran a dressed out 1100 and NEVER had a problem. Keep it cleaned and lubed properly and use top quality ammo and there should be no problems.

    Then there is the very real possibility of a "Miami shootout" situation where one arm is taken out of action and the FBI agent is sitting down with his pump gun between his legs trying to work the action and stay in the fight, an auto could have kept running without a problem. IMHO having to use the shottie with a disabled arm in the real world is more probable than a jam with a modern outo.

    Quick question............How many of you guys advocating using a pump shotgun because of fear of jams....are carrying an auto handgun and not a revolver???????????????
    My wife's father has hunted with many shotguns for over 50 years. He has sent numerous autoloaders back to the factory for a variety of issues but has never once sent back a pump gun. I have been hunting for quite some time and I only use a pump. I can drop it in mud, crud or sand and it'll work everytime. In fact I have only had on malfunction with my 835 and that was an extracter retaining screw had come loose. But that was after 15-20 years of hard use and that was a quick fix on the spot.

  11. #10
    Senior Member Array Chuck R.'s Avatar
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    Itís funny, but people always mention the reliability issue when choosing between a pump and auto shotgun, but will not hesitate to rely a semi pistol or rifle. But yet, Iíve seen way more jams with semi pistols and rifles than I have with shotguns.

    Maybe itís just me.

    In my experience a good auto shotgun properly maintained with good ammunition is about as reliable as it gets.

    Add in the human factor as part of the ďsystemĒ and the auto may even be considered more reliable. Based the couple shotgun courses Iíve taken and a few matches and Iíve seen more pumps short-shucked than I have autos jam. I shot pumps for years, but still had an occasional short-shuck when hunting. All it took was a hard left to right crossing shot when sitting, or a high overhead passing shot. When I switched to hunting out of a layout boat I'd get hung up a couple times a year.

    A semi I can shoot prone, sitting, and one handed if I have to.

    This summer I had a friend and his daughter out to my place to do some shooting. She went through about 3 mag fulls in my Benelli by just pointing a clicking. Meanwhile, she jammed my MOD 12 twice.

    You guys are right in that training can help, but in my own experience I've still had and seen more pumps short-shucked then I have semis jam. Last shotgun course I took it was the same thing, several students with pumps got hung up, the 3 of us with autos sailed through. For one guy it was his first time shooting a shotgun, and it was a borrowed gun (Benelli M1S90).

    I go up to the skeet club on post and see guys going through hundreds of rounds and afternoon through autos without issue. Some of the guys I shoot with run a boresanke through after a round and maybe do a real cleaning every couple months.

    IMHO the benefits a pump has over a semi are cost and ammo sensitivity.

    Chuck
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  12. #11
    Senior Member Array Zundfolge's Avatar
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    Pump shotguns "always function" ... until you are under extreme stress and short stroke it.

    Modern semi auto shotguns are just as reliable as pump shotguns ... just make sure you test any ammo before you trust it. The Saiga 12 I had never had a problem feeding anything from #8 game loads all the way up to 3" slugs (and the gas system absorbed a bit of recoil making those 3" slugs pleasant to shoot).

  13. #12
    VIP Member Array goldshellback's Avatar
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    I shoot 'em both...Love 'em both....I perfer a pump (kinda like driving a manual transmission, it's fun and functional)

    I've shot auto's mostly in the field but pump's have had the monopoly on HD stuff
    "Just getting a concealed carry permit means you haven't commited a crime yet. CCP holders commit crimes." Daniel Vice, senior attorney for the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, quoted on Fox & Friends, 8 Jul, 2008

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  14. #13
    Member Array JJTGlock17's Avatar
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    I Haven't shot very many autos, I really really like my pump, but those Saiga's are just plain cool.
    "What the hell is the world coming to?" - Sheriff Buford T. Justice

  15. #14
    Senior Member Array Jackle1886's Avatar
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    I have shorted a pump...once. But almost everytime I go out in foul weather, the auto's go Boom, Click. They get jammed, or iced up, or just too cold or any other thing. The old rusty 870's, just pump a little harder and your fine :).

  16. #15
    Member Array firestarplus's Avatar
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    I love the pump just for its unmistakable "warning" as you "rack her up". Also I like Goldshell's manual tranny analogy! Excellent!

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