1st round less lethals

This is a discussion on 1st round less lethals within the Defensive Rifles & Shotgun Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Does anyone use a first round bean bag or rubber buckshot/slug in their HD shotgun? Why would it be or not be a good idea? ...

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Thread: 1st round less lethals

  1. #1
    Member Array ada229's Avatar
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    1st round less lethals

    Does anyone use a first round bean bag or rubber buckshot/slug in their HD shotgun? Why would it be or not be a good idea? Its something I've considered, I guess its just the nice guy in me

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    My personal opinion (worth what you paid for it ) is that such rounds are a law enforcement tool...less-than-lethal riot control and the like.

    If I'm having to point a shotgun at someone in self-defense, I need to be under absolute threat of lethal violence or grievous bodily injury (Tennessee law). If I'm justified under that standard, I'm justified in having a "lethal" shell being the first one in the chamber.

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    If someone puts me in a situation where I grab for a gun I want to make sure the situation is handled as fast as possible. I understand that your a nice guy but you think he'll say to himself, well im not going to pull my trigger cuz he just shot me with a sand bag.. and leave.... maybe if theres a dog that keeps pooping in your yard or something maybe hit him with one but for defense...not a chance i'd use one.

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    Member Array ada229's Avatar
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    I guess I should make a quick edit, I don't currently use any of these rounds or even own one, it is just something that had been brought up to me before and wasn't quite sure what to think of it. I DO NOT think that someone with no training with these types of munitions should EVER attempt to use them without propper instruction. I have previous experience with these as a former sheriffs deputy. They can and have been very lethal if not used correctly. I'd tend to agree with you guys however.

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    I've thought the first round being a taser round might be cool, but wouldn't consider just an "owie" round.
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    I think (suspect) that a prosecutor/jury would be very apt to see a shotgun fired by a homeowner at a BG as lethal force regardless of the round fired. When you attempted to argue that you were using "less than lethal" force, with a lethal instrument (said shotgun), your argument would fall on deaf ears and you would perceived as some sort of household ninja.

    If lethal force is warranted, shoot to stop. Keep shooting to stop until the BG stops. If lethal force isn't warranted, don't fire any firearm of any kind with any type of ammo.

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    Senior Member Array dunndw's Avatar
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    If I have to pull a weapon on someone...it's going to be live rounds, not less lethal.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ada229 View Post
    Does anyone use a first round bean bag or rubber buckshot/slug in their HD shotgun? Why would it be or not be a good idea? Its something I've considered, I guess its just the nice guy in me
    I'm not a nice guy. To me, less lethal = less effective.
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    I like the fact that you are thinking outside the box. But I don't think this would be a good option.

    1. Police usually have dedicated weapon systems for the lethal and less than lethal shotguns. Our department paints the stocks on our less than lethal 870's orange, so that nobody on the scene will be confused. Switching form less than lethal to lethal rounds all in the same gun fight, from the same weapon is very confusing. Learn from Law Enforcements mistakes, this is not a good idea.

    2. One round from a bean bag rarely completely stops a suspect. Police usually don't deploy the bean bag round without a cover officer, who can use lethal force, cuff the suspect before he has time to recover, or whatever. You will not have this option.

    3. I certainly wouldn't load the bean bag round first, if I wanted to have it as an option. You could load one in a side saddle and then do a bullet type change drill, if you had a very unique situation where it was needed.

    Having options is a good thing. Less than lethal and less lethal options are great. I just don't think the bean bag round is a good option for you. Consider a carrying a Taser or pepper spray for less lethal options.

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    Shoot to eliminate the threat... A nonlethal form only puts the bg on standby till he recovers and continues the assault. Also are you positive you would not be tempted to use it in a non life threatening situation that could backfire on you when someone dies of the injury. Cover your but.

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    Nope, wouldn't do it, shooting a shotgun at someone is still lethal force regardless of the round fired. If you are in fear of your life, eliminate the threat as quickly as possible.
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    Quote Originally Posted by buckeyeLCPL View Post
    Nope, wouldn't do it, shooting a shotgun at someone is still lethal force regardless of the round fired. If you are in fear of your life, eliminate the threat as quickly as possible.
    That sums it up nicely, why take the gamble? Less lethal is always backed up by lethal, unless you have that luxury, forget about less lethal all together. Chances are you get one shot to save your life.
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    You shoot an armed suspect with a bean bag round and he will be really mad when hes pumping you full of lead
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    Two points:

    1) at the average in-house distance, your LTL round is anything but. You'll kill or (worse for you) permanently maim the intruder. Whatever civil-court-Hell was awaiting, it just got hotter.

    2) rubber, maybe; beanie, never. See #1. Beanbags are more specialized. I'm not often one who argues that weapon/ammo selection is a huge deal to prosecutors or plaintiff's attnys, but this is a different league.

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